Ethics Commission
City and County of San Francisco

Transcript – Special Meeting of the Ethics Commission – June 29, 2012 – Part I

    1               BEFORE THE ETHICS COMMISSION

2 CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO

3 STATE OF CALIFORNIA

4

5 In the Matter of Charges Against

6 ROSS MIRKARIMI,

7 Sheriff, City and County of San Francisco

8 _______________________________________

9

10

11 City and County of San Francisco

12 Special Meeting of the Ethics Commission

13 Volume 5 (Pages 720-987)

14 Friday, June 29, 2012 - 9:04 a.m.

15

16

17

18 Reported by: Marlene Puaoi, CSR, RPR
California CSR No. 7370
19 and
Jeannette Samoulides, CSR
20 California CSR No. 5254

21

22 Bonnie Wagner Court Reporting
Certified Shorthand Reporters
23 1819 Polk Street, No. 446
San Francisco, California 94109
24 (415) 982-4849

25

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 BE IT REMEMBERED that on Friday, June 29,

2 2012, at CITY HALL, 1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place,

3 Room 400, San Francisco, California, before MARLENE

4 PUAOI, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the

5 State of California, commencing at the hour of 9:04 a.m.

6 and ending at the hour of 12:15 p.m., and before

7 JEANNETTE SAMOULIDES, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in

8 and for the State of California, commencing at the hour

9 of 1:05 p.m. and ending at the hour of 5:15 p.m., the

10 following proceedings were had of record.

11 ---o0o---

12

13 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL

14 For Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi

15 LAW OFFICES OF SHEPARD S. KOPP
11355 W. Olympic Boulevard, Suite 300
16 Los Angeles, California 90064
BY: SHEPARD S. KOPP, Attorney at Law
17 - and -

18 LAW OFFICES OF DAVID P. WAGGONER
2251 Market Street, Suite B
19 San Francisco, California 94114
BY: DAVID P. WAGGONER, Attorney at Law
20

21 For the City and County of San Francisco

22 OFFICE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY
1390 Market Street, Fifth Floor
23 San Francisco, California 94102-5408
BY: PETER J. KEITH, Deputy City Attorney
24 BY: SHERRI SOKELAND KAISER, Deputy City Attorney

25

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1 For the Ethics Commission Board

2 MOSCONE, EMBLIDGE & SATER, LLP
220 Montgomery Street, Suite 2100
3 San Francisco, California 94104
BY: G. SCOTT EMBLIDGE, Attorney at Law
4

5 ---o0o---

6 Commissioners Present

7 Benedict Y. Hur, Commission Chairman
Jamienne S. Studley
8 Beverly Hayon
Dorothy S. Liu
9 Paul A. Renne

10 Staff Present

11 John St. Croix, Executive Director
Catherine Argumedo, Legal Analyst/Ethics Investigator
12 Garrett Chatfield, Legal Analyst/Ethics Investigator
Mabel Ng, Deputy Executive Director
13

14 ---o0o---

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 INDEX

2 Page

3 MORNING SESSION 724

4 AFTERNOON SESSION 855

5

6

7 INDEX OF WITNESSES

8

9 ROSS MIRKARIMI Page

10 Cross-Examination by Mr. Keith (Resumed) 725

11 Redirect Examination by Mr. Waggoner 815

12 Recross-Examination by Mr. Keith 829

13 Further Recross-Examination by Mr. Keith 851

14

15 EDWIN M. LEE

16 Cross-Examination by Mr. Kopp 856

17 Redirect Examination by Ms. Kaiser 897

18 Recross-Examination by Mr. Kopp 906

19

20 WILLIAM M. LANSDOWNE

21 Cross-Examination by Mr. Kopp 908

22 Redirect Examination by Ms. Kaiser 930

23 Recross-Examination by Mr. Kopp 946

24 ---o0o---

25

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1 Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi June 29, 2012

2 ---o0o---

3 P R O C E E D I N G S

4 COMMISSIONER HUR: Good morning, and welcome to the

5 continued special meeting of the San Francisco Ethics

6 Commission. We are dealing with the official misconduct

7 charges against Sheriff Mirkarimi. We apologize for the

8 slight delay. Due to the contours of this room and that

9 it's not really set up particularly well for witness

10 testimony, we had to adjust some of the seating. So we

11 apologize for the slight delay.

12 When we broke last night, Sheriff Mirkarimi was

13 giving his testimony. Sheriff, if you wouldn't mind

14 taking the witness stand.

15 THE WITNESS: Resume seating?

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: Please be seated.

17 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

18 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Before we begin

19 questioning, let's take the roll.

20 (Roll taken)

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: All members of the commission

22 are present. The witness is seated. Counsel is ready.

23 Sheriff, I remind you that you are still under oath.

24 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

25 COMMISSIONER HUR: Mr. Keith, please proceed.

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1 MR. KEITH: Thank you.

2 ---o0o---

3 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. KEITH (Resumed):

4 MR. KEITH: Q. Good morning, Sheriff.

5 A. Good morning.

6 Q. Sheriff, you recall being directed by the

7 chair of the commission last night not to discuss your

8 testimony with anyone between the time you left the

9 stand last night and this morning. Do you recall that

10 direction?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Okay. Who have you spoken with since last

13 night?

14 A. My attorneys.

15 Q. What did you say to them?

16 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, attorney-client

17 privilege.

18 COMMISSIONER HUR: Objection sustained.

19 MR. KEITH: Q. Did you speak with anyone about

20 your testimony?

21 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

22 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll allow that.

23 THE WITNESS: No.

24 MR. KEITH: Q. This morning, did you stop for

25 coffee?

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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Who was there?

3 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

4 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

5 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, I want to go back to your

6 relationship with Linnette Peralta Haynes. What is your

7 relationship with Linnette Peralta Haynes?

8 A. Professional and social.

9 Q. When did that relationship begin between you

10 and Ms. Peralta Haynes?

11 A. I'd say a few years ago, when she was a

12 legislative aide here at the Board of Supervisors, or

13 even maybe before that.

14 Q. And when did she join your campaign for

15 sheriff?

16 A. About five weeks before the election.

17 Q. And can you describe your wife's relationship

18 with Linnette Peralta Haynes in 2011?

19 A. I would say friendly, social.

20 Q. Did you introduce them?

21 A. I believe they just met themselves, but since

22 Ms. Peralta Haynes worked on our campaign, that must

23 have been one of the ways that they met. But they could

24 have met even before.

25 Q. Have you referred to Ms. Peralta Haynes in the

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 past as a domestic violence advocate?

2 A. Me personally?

3 Q. Yes.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Is your relationship with Ms. Peralta Haynes

6 in the professional capacity as a political consultant

7 or a domestic violence advocate?

8 A. It's always been on a political/social level.

9 Q. Sheriff, Exhibit 82, which is an exhibit

10 that's in the record, it's AT&T phone records, and that

11 exhibit shows that at 11:18 a.m. on January 4th your

12 wife and Linnette Peralta Haynes had a telephone call

13 that lasted over 39 minutes.

14 Tell us everything you know about how your wife and

15 Linnette Peralta Haynes came to have that conversation

16 on January 4th.

17 A. I'm sorry. I -- I cannot tell you because I

18 didn't have a conversation with them about that

19 conversation.

20 Q. Okay. So you have no idea how your wife and

21 Linnette Peralta Haynes ended up having a phonecall in

22 the morning of January 4th?

23 A. Well, what I would suspect is that we are, on

24 January 4th, four days from me being inaugurated as

25 the 35th sheriff of the City and County of

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 San Francisco. That was also two days before where a

2 rather sizable dinner was being planned in honor of the

3 people, volunteers who worked on our campaign.

4 And there's a great amount of detail in

5 transitioning from my office of supervisor to the fourth

6 floor here in the sheriff's department, so there was a

7 great deal going on. Any one of those topics or themes

8 could have been part of their conversation. A great

9 deal was going on in my family and the people close to

10 my family.

11 MR. KEITH: Now, Commission, I'm going to make a

12 conditional motion to strike for lack of foundation.

13 I'm going to explore the foundation now to see whether

14 this is speculation on the part of the sheriff or

15 whether he has personal knowledge.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: Conditional motion to strike?

17 MR. KEITH: Well, I --

18 COMMISSIONER HUR: That's overruled.

19 MR. KEITH: I'm going to make a motion to strike as

20 lacking foundation, then.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: I think you invited the answer.

22 I'm going to overrule it.

23 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. Sheriff, you've discussed

24 some of the things that were happening that week as

25 potential reasons for your wife's call with Linnette

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Peralta Haynes on the morning of January 4th.

2 A. As I just shared.

3 Q. Do you in fact know why that call occurred on

4 the morning of January 4th?

5 A. No, I -- I cannot speak for my wife or

6 Ms. Peralta Haynes.

7 Q. Between December 31st and January 4th, did

8 you ever mention Linnette Peralta Haynes to your wife?

9 A. I'm sure I had.

10 Q. And in what context did you mention Linnette

11 Peralta Haynes to your wife between December 31st and

12 January 4th?

13 A. As a principal partner in our post-campaign

14 infrastructure and preparing for the inaugural and

15 preparing for the dinner that I just mentioned.

16 Q. Did you ever mention to your wife between

17 December 31st and January 4th Linnette Peralta

18 Haynes' background in domestic violence?

19 A. I -- no.

20 Q. What contacts did you have with Linnette

21 Peralta Haynes between December 31st and the morning

22 of January 4th?

23 A. Very minimal. Some text messages and some

24 phonecalls, strictly related to the transition of our

25 office from supervisor to sheriff.

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Did any of your communications with

2 Ms. Peralta Haynes between the 31st and the morning of

3 January 4th mention any issues surrounding a conflict

4 between you and your wife?

5 A. No.

6 Q. That was completely absent?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Now, Sheriff, last night, we were looking at a

9 text message that you sent to your wife at 12:03 p.m. on

10 January 4th.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. "Left you a vm but didn't hear back. What

13 happened?"

14 And your testimony was that you were following up

15 on a voicema il message that you had left. Correct?

16 A. In response to my wife, yes.

17 Q. Okay. And -- okay. So you did leave a

18 voicemail message that morning for your wife?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Okay. And that voicemail message that you

21 left for your wife was in response to what?

22 A. As I said last night in the testimony, it was

23 very vague. And as I said, I was speculating it was

24 routine, probably having to do with our son.

25 Q. Okay. So is it your testimony that your wife

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 had left you a message earlier in the morning on

2 January 4th?

3 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

4 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll allow it. It is similar

5 ground we went over, so I hope that it's quick.

6 Overruled.

7 MR. KEITH: I'm just trying to get us up to speed

8 here.

9 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

10 THE WITNESS: I believe I was returning her call.

11 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. And when had she left that

12 call -- left that message for you?

13 A. I do not have the record in front, so I -- I

14 cannot tell you.

15 Q. Was it a message that she had left for you on

16 January 4th?

17 A. If she had, it would have been in the morning,

18 yes.

19 MR. KEITH: Now I'm going to ask the Commission and

20 the sheriff to turn to Exhibit 83.

21 Ms. Kaiser, do we have a set of binders for the

22 witness?

23 MS. KAISER: Yes.

24 MR. KEITH: No, no, this is the right set. Okay.

25 Q. So Sheriff, would you please turn to

731
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Exhibit 83? It should be the last tab in the volume

2 that you have, which is Volume II of the mayor's

3 exhibits.

4 And just to explain to the Commission, this is an

5 exhibit of the mayor that is in evidence. It is a

6 compilation of information that's in the mayor's

7 possession regarding communications on January 4th

8 among -- I should say between Sheriff Mirkarimi and

9 Ms. Lopez, Ms. Williams, Ms. Madison, Mr. Mertens, and

10 Ms. Peralta Haynes, and likewise communications between

11 Ms. Lopez and the sheriff, Ms. Williams, Ms. Madison,

12 Mr. Mertens, and Ms. Peralta Haynes. It's a compilation

13 taken from the telephone records from AT&T as well as

14 those text messages that the mayor's office has. So

15 that is Exhibit 83.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: So the names have been

17 substituted for the phone numbers?

18 MR. KEITH: That is correct.

19 Q. So Sheriff, I'm going to ask you to turn to

20 page 2 of Exhibit 83.

21 Now, Sheriff, can you see on the top line of that

22 exhibit?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Does that reflect the text message that you

25 sent to your wife at 12:03 p.m. on January 4th?

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. On page 3, I have here page 3 of 17.

2 Q. Oh. Sheriff, you should be on Exhibit 83, not

3 82. Sorry.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. Are you on page 2 of Exhibit 83?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Okay. And you see that top line there --

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. -- reflects that 12:03 text message?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Okay. And that's referencing a voicemail that

12 you left for your wife?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Okay. Looking at page 1 of Exhibit 83 --

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. -- we have communications on January 4th

17 that occurred before 12:03 in the afternoon. These are

18 in chronological order. Do you see those?

19 A. I do.

20 Q. Okay. Now, as we go up the page, starting

21 from the bottom, the previous -- the next call prior to

22 the 12:03 text message that you sent that we see here

23 from you is a 9:33 a.m. phonecall that lasted 36

24 seconds. Do you see that?

25 A. I do.

733
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Okay. Does that square with your memory of

2 when you -- when you left a voicemail message for your

3 wife?

4 A. I do not know if that was voicemail or if it

5 was direct contact.

6 Q. Okay. Do you have any reason to doubt -- were

7 you making calls to your wife on the morning of

8 January 4th from any other phone besides your cell

9 phone?

10 A. No, I don't believe so, but -- maybe one from

11 City Hall, but I doubt it. I think it was all cell

12 phone because I was en route to San Bruno.

13 Q. Do you recall being en route to San Bruno when

14 you left the voicemail message for your wife?

15 A. Again, I -- I'm not sure.

16 Q. Now, Sheriff, as we look at page 1 of

17 Exhibit 33 --

18 A. I'm sorry. 33 or 83?

19 Q. I'm sorry. I apologize. I meant Exhibit 83.

20 As we look at page 1 of Exhibit 83, are there any

21 calls from your wife to you shown on that exhibit?

22 A. Not that I see, no.

23 Q. So if we're looking at these records, there

24 was no call from your wife to you on the morning of

25 January 4th?

734
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And if there was no call from your wife to

3 you, there would be no voicemail message from your wife

4 to you on the morning of January 4th?

5 A. Unless I received a message through my office

6 here at City Hall, because I was here in my office, too,

7 on the second floor.

8 Q. Okay. Did you receive a message from your

9 wife through your office on the morning of January 4th?

10 A. Quite likely, I could have.

11 Q. Did you or didn't you?

12 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

13 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

14 THE WITNESS: Quite likely.

15 MR. KEITH: Q. Did you or didn't you?

16 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

17 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sheriff, do you remember whether

18 you received a call or not?

19 TH E WITNESS: I don't remember if the call came

20 either through my office, because I was going back and

21 forth from second to fourth floor quite a bit and a lot

22 was happening that day.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: So you don't have a specific

24 recollection of receiving this message?

25 THE WITNESS: From my wife?

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER HUR: Yes.

2 THE WITNESS: I received probably many messages in

3 some respect just throughout the day and days. But at

4 that specific time, no, I do not.

5 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. I think you have what you

6 need.

7 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, was that 9:33 call from

8 you to your wife about your -- was the subject matter of

9 that call about her calling Linnette Peralta Haynes?

10 A. No, not at all.

11 Q. So Sheriff, if we're looking at Exhibit 3- --

12 Exhibit 83 and we look at that 9:33 a.m. call from you

13 to your wife that lasted 36 seconds, the next entry that

14 we see, at 10:55 a.m., is a text from your wife to

15 Linnette Peralta Haynes. Do you know what that text

16 message was about?

17 A. No, I don't. I don't have any text messages

18 between my wife and Linnette Peralta Haynes, not here.

19 Q. Did you talk to your wife later and find out

20 what that text message was about?

21 A. Later?

22 Q. At any time.

23 A. Well, not until the end of the day, when I was

24 informed much later. Late in the afternoon, I was

25 informed of all the happenings that were occurring. And

736
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 no, there was no specifics provided to me about any

2 conversation between my wife and Linnette Peralta

3 Haynes.

4 Q. Now, Sheriff, let's go back to the second page

5 of Exhibit 83. That's the page, again, that shows on

6 the top your text message to your wife, "Left you a vm

7 but didn't hear back. What happened?"

8 Sheriff, was that 12:03 text message to ask your

9 wife about what happened with her call with Linnette

10 Peralta Haynes?

11 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

13 THE WITNESS: I -- no, I do not believe it is.

14 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. And then if we look at the

15 next entry on Exhibit 83 after that 12:03 text message

16 asking your wife what happened, we see at 12:24 p.m., 21

17 minutes later, a text message from your wife to Ivory

18 Madison saying she's not going to call the police, she's

19 going to open a record with her doctor.

20 A. I see that, yes.

21 Q. Okay. And it is your testimony that there's

22 no connection between your 12:03 text message and your

23 wife's subsequent text message to Ivory Madison?

24 A. No connection at all.

25 Q. All right. Now, Sheriff, let's go back to

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 where we left off on January 4th yesterday. You told

2 us that after your budget committee meeting, you were

3 moving from office to office, from your supervisorial

4 office to the sheriff's office. Did you go home after

5 that move?

6 A. I quickly went home to grab -- I'm trying to

7 recall what time of the day, but I went home to grab

8 some papers and then just left.

9 Q. Okay. So when you went home, did you go out

10 to the back, to the back steps area of your house?

11 A. I did. The back door was open.

12 Q. Okay. And what did you see on the back steps

13 area of your house when you went out there after going

14 home?

15 A. My wife engaged in a conversation with the

16 upstairs neighbor.

17 Q. And the upstairs neighbor is Callie Williams?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Okay. At that time, what did you understand

20 their conversation to be about?

21 A. I didn't. I didn't stay long enough to have a

22 conversation. I said "Hi" and "Bye."

23 Q. Okay. Did you ask your wife to -- to come in

24 and talk with you after she was done?

25 A. I -- I didn't ask her to. She did, and it was

738
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 just simply to talk about the rest of the day as it

2 relates to picking up our son.

3 Q. So you didn't ask your wife to come back in

4 when she was done talking to Callie Williams?

5 A. I believe not. I believe my wife decided on

6 her own to just come in as I was leaving, because I was

7 quickly departing.

8 Q. Now, when your wife came back in, how -- how

9 long of a conversation did you have with her?

10 A. Maybe two minutes, maybe a minute.

11 Q. Did you talk at all about what your wife and

12 Callie Williams were discussing on the back steps?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Did you talk at all about your wife's earlier

15 conversation that morning with Linnette Peralta Haynes?

16 A. No.

17 Q. You mentioned that your conversation involved

18 picking up your son later in the day.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Okay.

21 A. Quick conversation.

22 Q. Was there anything else discussed between you

23 and your wife at that time?

24 A. Probably me just lamenting all the preparation

25 and kind of the normal chaos of transitioning offices

739
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 and being inaugurated four days away. But I was in and

2 out.

3 Q. And what was your wife's demeanor during that

4 conversation on January 4th when you were home

5 briefly?

6 A. Warm.

7 Q. She didn't seem concerned?

8 A. I think she was concerned about the overall

9 stress because of a great amount of demands that were

10 placed on us in preparing for a big transition.

11 Q. Okay. Sheriff, I just -- I just want to know

12 your impression of how your wife seemed to you, not --

13 not your view of why she may have been concerned. Did

14 she seem concerned during that conversation with her?

15 A. C oncerned about what? Could you --

16 Q. Did she seem happy or did she seem worried?

17 A. As I said, I think she seemed warm.

18 Q. Okay. So she did not seem concerned in that

19 conversation that she had with you when you were home

20 briefly in the middle of the day on the 4th?

21 A. No.

22 Q. And did -- did your wife inform you of what

23 her plans were for the rest of the day during that

24 conversation?

25 A. No.

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Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Did you inform her what your plans were for

2 the rest of the day after that conversation?

3 A. Well, as I said, to return to get some papers

4 to go back to City Hall.

5 Q. Okay. Anything else? Did you say anything

6 else to your wife about your plans for that afternoon

7 during that conversation?

8 A. I may have reminded her about an event that

9 was being thrown in my honor late -- later that

10 afternoon as I was exiting. There was an event planned

11 for me as the former chair of LAFCo.

12 Q. That was the Sol y Luna event that was going

13 to -- that was scheduled to occur around 5:30 in the

14 afternoon?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Where did you go after you left -- now, do you

17 have an estimate of approximately when you left your

18 home, what time in the afternoon that day?

19 A. I -- I don't. I'm sorry.

20 Q. Okay.

21 A. But I was there very short. Like I said, a

22 couple minutes.

23 Q. Okay. And when you -- when you left home,

24 where did you go?

25 A. City Hall.

741
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Okay. How did you get to City Hall?

2 A. I believe I drove. I was darting back and

3 forth, but I often walked from my home to City Hall too.

4 Q. Do you recall one way or the other?

5 A. I believe I drove.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. I believe I did.

8 Q. And when you got to City Hall on the afternoon

9 of the 4th, approximately what time was it?

10 A. Maybe 2:00 something, maybe. Maybe later.

11 Q. Where did you go when you got to City Hall

12 that afternoon?

13 A. Well, I would go to my second-floor office and

14 then I would go to the fourth floor, here, between the

15 sheriff and the supervisor's office.

16 Q. And what were you doing?

17 A. As I shared earlier, we were transitioning out

18 of offices. I was required to vacate my office by

19 Friday, January 6th, so there was a lot of demand for

20 us to be out of our office by Friday, January 6, so that

21 we then made preparations for transition. So there was

22 a lot of responsibility placed on my staff, us, and

23 requirements that we vacate by 5:00 o'clock on Friday

24 the 6th.

25 Q. And so what were you actually doing as part of

742
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 these -- these efforts to vacate your Board of

2 Supervisors office that afternoon?

3 A. Well, having to negotiate furniture, files,

4 papers, where things were being sent from my office

5 downstairs to the offices up here, where they weren't

6 entirely ready because they were painting the offices up

7 here, and making room and accommodations. So like any

8 time when somebody moves, it's a little distressful.

9 Q. So were you directing those efforts to move

10 that afternoon?

11 A. I wouldn't say I was directing, but I was

12 certainly monitoring.

13 Q. What else were you doing that afternoon?

14 A. Taking care of business with regard to

15 cleaning up as a supervisor and in preparation for

16 coming into the office of sheriff.

17 Q. Did you have any immediate scheduled meetings

18 that afternoon at City Hall?

19 A. Impromptu, I believe. People came in all the

20 time, which is quite routine anyway as a public servant,

21 as a supervisor, and a lot of people were coming in and

22 stopping me along the way, congratulating me and

23 thanking me and -- and just sharing their well wishes.

24 Q. Who are some of those people that you saw on

25 the afternoon of January 4th in City Hall?

743
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. People around, supervisors, fellow

2 supervisors, or other staff and just constituents.

3 Q. Can you provide some -- can you provide any

4 names?

5 A. I'll have to think about it.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. I'll have to think about it. People come in

8 the supervisors' offices all the time. That's quite a

9 normal existence.

10 Q. I'm asking you to tell -- to give us names of

11 the people who you spoke with in City Hall on the

12 afternoon of January 4th.

13 A. Clerk staff. Clerk staff. Potentially clerk

14 staff like Ms. Angela Calvillo, clerk of the board,

15 relating to my own staff, and others, yes.

16 Q. Okay. You mentioned one name, Angela

17 Calvillo. You spoke with her on the afternoon of

18 January 4th while you were attending to your supervisor

19 duties?

20 A. Yes, I believe I did, and probably other

21 members of the clerk of the board.

22 Q. Can you give me more names than Angela

23 Calvillo? Can you give us all of the names of the

24 people who you spoke with during that time period?

25 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

744
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 THE WITNESS: No, I can't.

2 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. I want to say one thing,

3 a couple of things. First of all, Mr. Waggoner,

4 actually, we have a microphone here. I think it would

5 probably be helpful if you used it to make objections,

6 so that everybody can hear. Is that acceptable? Would

7 you mind moving over there?

8 The second thing I'd like to say, and we said it

9 last night, we're now in a very sensitive part of the

10 hearing where we have testimony coming from witnesses,

11 and so we're going to have to be very strict about

12 comments and outbursts from the crowd. I understand you

13 may have -- you may feel like you want to have a

14 reaction, and that's natural, but I -- I would ask you

15 to restrain yourself because it is important that we

16 have silence so that we can focus on the witness and the

17 questions.

18 If there is an outburst, I'm directing the sheriff

19 to please remove that person from the proceedings.

20 Thank you.

21 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, where were you when you

22 first learned that there was a police investigation of

23 the incident on January -- on -- excuse me. Where were

24 you when you first learned there was a police

25 investigation of the incident between you and your wife

745
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 on -- that occurred on December 31st?

2 A. I received a phonecall from my wife sometime

3 after 4:00 p.m. on January 4, and she alluded that there

4 was some happening involving the police and the neighbor

5 and she wanted to come and talk with me. So it was

6 after 4:00 o'clock on January 4th that I first learned

7 of any of this.

8 Q. Where you when you learned?

9 A. City Hall.

10 Q. Where in City Hall?

11 A. I believe it was my second-floor office.

12 Q. Okay. Your old supervisor's office?

13 A. Yes, but it was my supervisor's office still.

14 Q. Who was with you when you learned about that?

15 A. Well, I'm sure my staff was present, but it

16 wasn't a conference call, so nobody specifically was

17 with me. I received a direct phonecall.

18 Q. Had you received text messages from your wife

19 prior to actually speaking with her on the phone that

20 afternoon about the police investigation?

21 A. No, I don't believe so. No.

22 Q. Had you received text messages from Linnette

23 Peralta Haynes that afternoon before speaking with your

24 wife about that investigation?

25 A. Only in a very vague way. I believe, if I

746
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 recall correctly, that the text messages said, "Call me.

2 It's an emergency. Call me." That's all I had seen.

3 Q. So Sheriff, I want to go back to Exhibit 83.

4 We're on page 2 of Exhibit 83.

5 Now, Sheriff, if we go down to 3:47 p.m., we see a

6 text message from Ms. Peralta Haynes to you that says,

7 "Can you call me. It is urgent. Regarding Eliana."

8 Did you see that text message before or after

9 speaking with your wife that afternoon?

10 A. After.

11 Q. How do you know that you didn't -- that you

12 saw that text message after speaking with your wife that

13 afternoon?

14 A. Because I was putting this all together when

15 my wife informed me after 4:00 o'clock and it all became

16 more clear what was happening, and that was within the

17 next, if I'm not mistaken, about 20, 25 minutes from

18 when my wife had called me.

19 Q. Now, Sheriff, I want to be -- I want to be

20 clear in my -- in my question about this. What I

21 understood you to say was that at least you understood

22 the import of this text message after you spoke with

23 your wife, but my -- but I want to make sure that I

24 understand whether you saw this text message before you

25 spoke with your wife.

747
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. No, I -- I don't believe I did.

2 Q. Okay. And then we have another text message

3 immediately below that at 3:53 p.m. from Ms. Peralta

4 Haynes to you, stating, "I need to talk to you to

5 protect you. Call me."

6 Do you see that text message?

7 A. I do.

8 Q. Okay. Did you see that text message before

9 you learned about this investigation from your wife in a

10 phonecall?

11 A. No, or else if I had seen the earlier one, I

12 would have responded.

13 Q. When you say you would have responded, meaning

14 you would have put in a call?

15 A. I would have replied in some fashion, I guess.

16 Q. Okay. So upon seeing this type of message,

17 your natural response would have been to reply to it,

18 whether by text message or by telephone?

19 A. Yes, generally.

20 Q. Now, Sheriff, you may not have -- earlier, we

21 discussed whether you had ever referred to Linnette

22 Peralta Haynes as a domestic violence advocate. You

23 said that you had never personally described Ms. Peralta

24 Haynes that way.

25 A. I don't believe I had, no. I knew of some of

748
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 her background, but that wasn't her relationship with

2 me.

3 Q. Okay. Now, this text message from Ms. Peralta

4 Haynes at 3:53 p.m. says, "I need to talk to you to

5 protect you. Call me."

6 Do domestic violence advocates normally protect

7 victims or perpetrators of domestic violence?

8 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, calls for speculation.

9 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained. There's no

10 foundation.

11 MR. KEITH: Q. So Sheriff, you are aware of media

12 portrayals of Ms. Peralta Haynes as a domestic violence

13 advocate. Correct?

14 A. I have heard of references.

15 Q. Okay. But to you, Ms. Peralta Haynes is a

16 campaign manager and political consultant?

17 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

18 COMMISSIONER HUR: I think you've established that

19 fact.

20 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, Sheriff, if we look further in

21 Exhibit 83, if we look on page 3, we see a text message

22 from your wife to you at 4:18 p.m. in the afternoon

23 stating, "Call me. It is an emergency."

24 Do you see that?

25 A. I do.

749
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Do you recall receiving that text message from

2 your wife?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And when did you -- did you -- what did you do

5 in response to that text message from your wife?

6 A. Well, I believe we spoke not long after that.

7 Q. And actually, if we look do wn on Exhibit 83,

8 at 4:23 p.m., we see a call from you to your wife.

9 A. Yes, five minutes later.

10 Q. Right. So was that -- would that call be in

11 response to her text message?

12 A. I believe my wife was following up, correct,

13 from her message.

14 Q. Well, the call shows that it's from you to

15 your wife, not your wife to you. Do you see that?

16 A. It says zero seconds, though.

17 COMMISSIONER HUR: Mr. Keith, there are three calls

18 at that time, so if you could --

19 MR. KEITH: Oh, right.

20 COMMISSIONER HUR: -- be a little clearer.

21 MR. KEITH: Q. So Sheriff, it shows -- okay. So

22 there's three calls shown at 4:23 p.m.

23 A. Yes. There -- apparently, I was trying to

24 return my wife's call, unable to get through, so I had

25 made several attempts.

750
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Right. And then she ends up calling you and

2 that's where we see a --

3 A. At 4:23 p.m. I had called her twice at 4:23,

4 did not connect with her because it says zero seconds

5 and then 17 seconds, and then I suppose within that

6 minute she called me back.

7 Q. Okay. So you had attempted to call your wife

8 and then she basically called you, whether it's lines

9 crossed or -- or any other explanation, but immediately

10 after you tried to call her?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Okay. So when you called your wife, had you

13 just read the text message from her?

14 A. When I made the phonecall, yes.

15 Q. And at that time, had you also seen the text

16 messages that had come in from Ms. Haynes earlier?

17 A. Quite possibly when I was able to review my

18 phone, yes. I see that I had text messages and I needed

19 to, I guess, respond.

20 Q. Okay. And what did your wife tell you in that

21 4:23 phonecall?

22 A. That -- she told me that the neighbors next

23 door -- Ms. Madison was pursuing a complaint with the

24 police. She had made mention of a video which I just

25 learned about for the first time, and she was very

751
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 concerned, very, very concerned, and wanted to come and

2 meet me and talk with me. And that was pretty much the

3 extent of the conversation.

4 Q. Okay. And were you in your supervisor's

5 office when you had that call with your wife?

6 A. I believe I was either in Room -- either Room

7 2 or Room -- I mean, second floor or fourth floor,

8 because I was going back and forth.

9 Q. Okay. Was there anyone around when you were

10 speaking with your wife for that five-minute telephone

11 call?

12 A. There were many people around because people

13 were moving.

14 Q. Do you recall any specific names?

15 A. Well, my staff certainly was around.

16 Q. Were they in the room when you were making

17 that call with your wife? Was anyone else in the room?

18 A. Well, our doors are really never closed, so

19 people come in and out. Staff like Vallie Brown or Rob,

20 Robert Selna. Those are two of my principal staff

21 people. And we had volunteers, and Rick Galbreath. But

22 yet, as I said, I was going back and forth between the

23 second and fourth floor, and on the fourth floor would

24 have been Sheriff's secretary Susan Fahey and

25 Undersheriff Jan Dempsey. She may have left already by

752
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 that time.

2 Q. Now, Sheriff, you -- you've given a list of

3 several people who may have been around. Do you have a

4 specific recollection of any -- of any individual who

5 definitely was around at the time that you had that

6 telephone call with your wife?

7 A. Could you be more clear when you say "around"?

8 Q. Okay. In the -- next to you when you made

9 that call with your wife.

10 A. Next to me. No, I -- I do not.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. But I do believe there were people in and out

13 of our office quite a bit because they were working.

14 Q. Were there people within earshot when you made

15 that call with your wife at 4:23?

16 A. I'm sure there were.

17 Q. Can you identify positively any of those

18 people within earshot at the time you had that call with

19 your wife at 4:23?

20 A. I cannot.

21 Q. Now, Sheriff, you sat down with the -- with

22 the Bay Guardian in April for a story about the events

23 that had occurred on December 31st and the ensuing

24 police investigation?

25 A. Yes.

753
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Which reporter did you sit down with?

2 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

3 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled. It's about the

4 subject matter.

5 THE WITNESS: There were three people present:

6 Bruce Brugmann, Tim Redmond, Steve Jones. And actually,

7 there was a woman present, but I -- I didn't know her.

8 MR. KEITH: Q. Who else was present?

9 A. Oh, a man named Jeff Gillenkirk, Dave -- David

10 Waggoner, and Kitty Kleisner, I think is the last name.

11 Q. And how long was that meeting that you had

12 with Bay Guardian reporters?

13 A. It was about -- it was over an hour.

14 Q. So Sheriff, I want to read you a short passage

15 from that -- from that story, and you can -- you can

16 tell me whether it's -- whether it's accurate or not.

17 A. Please.

18 Q. Now, this is referring to what -- what

19 happened after you found out about -- about the police

20 investigation from your wife, just to give you some

21 context.

22 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, lacks foundation.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

24 MR. KEITH: Okay.

25 Q. Well, Sheriff, I'll just -- I'll just simply

754
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 read the story and you can tell me. I'll read this

2 passage and you can tell me whether it's true or not.

3 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, la cks foundation.

4 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained. Counsel, you haven't

5 established what you're -- what it is. There's no

6 foundation. Sustained.

7 MR. KEITH: Oh.

8 COMMISSIONER HUR: Can we establish -- can you

9 establish what the document is? We haven't seen it; the

10 witness hasn't seen it. I mean, you're ask- -- we have

11 no idea what you're reading from.

12 MR. KEITH: Oh, I'm not -- I'm not offering this

13 into evidence. I just want the witness's testimony

14 based on some -- his telling me whether something is

15 true or not. I'm not offering the document.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: That's fine, but I think it's

17 more fair for you to show it to the witness.

18 MR. KEITH: Okay.

19 COMMISSIONER HUR: And frankly, I'd like to see it

20 too if you're going to be reading from it.

21 MR. KEITH: All right. Well, I have -- I do have a

22 copy for the witness.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Do you have a copy for

24 counsel as well?

25 MR. KEITH: No, but I'm happy to show -- show it to

755
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 counsel.

2 Q. Sheriff, I'm going to -- I'm going to make a

3 box around what I'm going to read to you so that you can

4 follow it.

5 So Sheriff, again, I want to just read this to you,

6 and you can -- you can tell me whether it's -- whether

7 it's accurate.

8 "They made a couple calls to find an attorney, and

9 he said Lopez had the idea of having their friend,

10 Linnette Peralta Haynes, a domestic violence advocate

11 with the Our Family Coalition, reach out to Madison

12 about why she had gone to police and what could be done

13 at that point. 'I had no idea what they were going to

14 talk about,' Mirkarimi claims."

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: What's the question?

16 MR. KEITH: Q. So the question is is that an

17 accurate account of what occurred in the conversation

18 between you and your wife after you learned about this

19 incident, about the police investigation?

20 A. Which part?

21 Q. Well, let's take it step by step.

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. So at -- well, let me -- I can step --

24 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm sorry --

25 MR. KEITH: Q. -- back a moment.

756
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm sorry to interrupt you. Do

2 you have a copy you can put on the promo so we can see

3 it?

4 MR. KEITH: I do not. I'm sorry. I just -- I just

5 have the copy -- I have this copy for the witness.

6 COMMISSIONER HUR: That's fine. Sorry to interrupt

7 you. Go ahead.

8 MR. KEITH: No, that's okay.

9 Q. The -- so Sheriff, after you got this call

10 from your wife, did you make a plan about what to do

11 next, about meeting your wife?

12 A. About -- my wife asked if we could meet and I

13 said "Yes," so that -- to the extent of a plan, yes.

14 Q. Okay. And did you meet your wife shortly

15 after this call?

16 A. I think it was within about the next 20 or 25

17 minutes. She had walked to City Hall, and I met her

18 outside on the Grove side.

19 Q. Okay. And then when you met your wife outside

20 the Grove side, did you have a conversation there?

21 A. We did.

22 Q. Okay. How long were you on the Grove side of

23 City Hall outside, speaking with your wife?

24 A. Well, it was -- it was one block up. I saw

25 her coming down. She seemed concerned. I could feel

757
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 that, especially from the earlier conversation that we

2 had just had on the phone. And so I met her about a

3 block on Grove. I would say about 20 minutes, 20, 25

4 minutes.

5 Q. Okay. And was it -- did anybody join the

6 conversation between you and your wife during those 20

7 to 25 minutes?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Okay. Just you and your wife?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Okay. So going back to that passage that I

12 read, I want to take it step by step, and you can tell

13 me whether this is accurate. "They made a couple calls

14 to find an attorney."

15 Is that accurate? Did you and your wife make a

16 couple of calls to find an attorney at that time?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. That is not accurate. It was much later.

20 Q. Okay. When did you make a couple of calls to

21 find an attorney?

22 A. Oh, probably had to be after 6:00. Six. Six,

23 5:30, 6:00, 6:30, maybe.

24 Q. Was it before or after that LAFCo event that

25 you had referenced earlier that you made calls to find

758
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 an attorney?

2 A. It was a conversation. And the first

3 conversation of that day that I had with Ms. Haynes,

4 Linnette Peralta Haynes, was a recommendation as I was

5 on my way to the LAFCo event about an attorney, but I

6 could not complete the conversation because I was

7 already terribly late for that event.

8 Q. Okay. And then the next part of this passage,

9 after the part that says "They made a couple calls to

10 find an attorney," the next part is, "and he said Lopez

11 had the idea of having their friend, Linnette Peralta

12 Haynes, a domestic violence advocate with the Our Family

13 Coalition, reach out to Madison about why she had gone

14 to police and what could be done at that point."

15 Is that accurate?

16 A. Not entirely, no, it's not.

17 Q. How is it inaccurate?

18 A. That I only had learned later in the day, when

19 my wife, Eliana, had informed me of her conversations

20 between she and Linnette and their contact then with the

21 next-door neighbor.

22 Q. And did your wife have the idea of having

23 Linnette Peralta Haynes contact Ivory Madison?

24 A. I am not sure about that. If that is the

25 case, that is something that my wife had simply

759
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 exchanged with Ms. Haynes, but I don't know.

2 Q. So did you have any part in the decision to

3 call Ivory Madison?

4 A. Not at all.

5 Q. So to the extent that this story characterizes

6 you as having participated in that decision to call

7 Linnette Peralta Haynes, you disagree with that?

8 A. I do. In fact, as the Guardian can probably

9 tell you, I even made a call later that day, when this

10 had hit the web, and I had -- had articulated my concern

11 about some of the accuracy on this. But it remained.

12 Q. Okay. Were there other aspects of the article

13 that you expressed concerns about with regard to

14 accuracy? I mean, you don't need to tell me them. I

15 just want to know, were there other inaccuracies in the

16 article that you believe that you found?

17 A. I believe that this is what stood out. And

18 this section, it stood out the most to me, but there

19 might have been, yes.

20 Q. So Sheriff, tell me about more about the

21 20-minute conversation that you had with your wife when

22 you were outside City Hall. What -- what was discussed

23 in that conversation?

24 A. Well, I was listening, mostly. My wife had

25 proceeded to tell me about what was happening with the

760
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 neighbor. She informed me about the existence of this

2 video. I did not know about it. And then she told me

3 that she felt betrayed by the neighbors because they

4 went forward to call authorities.

5 I could see my wife was scared, concerned, and

6 angry of what the neighbor was doing. I was informed

7 that my wife had this relationship with the neighbor as

8 if the neighbor was her attorney -- I did not know

9 that -- in the respect that Ms. Madison had been either

10 contracted or there was an arrangement for her to act as

11 an attorney for my wife. And my wife was suggesting to

12 me that -- you know, she was asking me, because she was

13 not familiar with the system, of what can we do about

14 this.

15 And I was just trying to absorb it all, process

16 what was happening. But I was very clear with my wife

17 that -- and I remember the quote that I said to her. I

18 said, "This bell -- you can't unring this bell, and we

19 must follow through with this process."

20 Q. Now, there was a call that you had later with

21 Ms. Peralta Haynes?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. What was discussed in that call with

24 Ms. Peralta Haynes?

25 A. Well, this is the first phonecall I had with

761
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Ms. Peralta Haynes, direct contact. And it's on a

2 little bit of her also informing me of what she knew

3 about of what occurred in her conversation with my wife,

4 Eliana, and then the next-door neighbor. It wasn't a

5 long conversation.

6 And again, I was listening because I'm learning of

7 all this for the first time, first through my wife and

8 then Ms. Peralta Haynes, so I am taking in information.

9 Q. Now, at the time when you had that telephone

10 call -- well, actually, let me -- let me step back for a

11 moment.

12 Did Ms. Peralta Haynes inform you of a conversation

13 that she had with Ivory Madison?

14 A. She did.

15 Q. Okay. Was that in the first call that you had

16 with her that afternoon?

17 A. We're almost in the evening now, so could you

18 be a little more specific?

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. It's in the evening.

21 Q. All right. Was it in the first call that you

22 had with Linnette Peralta Haynes that she informed you

23 that she had had a conversation with Ivory Madison?

24 A. I don't remember if it was first or second,

25 but I could possibly refresh my memory if I look at the

762
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 log.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. Is that okay?

4 Counsel, maybe you can help me as to which time are

5 we talking about. I see 5:20 p.m. I'm sorry.

6 5:20 p.m. is a five-second phonecall. Five-twenty --

7 the first phonecall I had with Ms. Peralta Haynes was at

8 5:24 p.m. Are we in agreement?

9 Q. Sheriff, you're just looking at this to

10 refresh your recollection, so I just want to let you

11 testify as to what your recollection is.

12 A. Okay. Well, I want to be accurate. So --

13 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Let's -- let's -- I do

14 think it is important that -- that we're accurate here.

15 I see a call at 5:12 p.m. from Ross Mirkarimi to

16 Linnette Haynes. Is that the call that -- that the

17 question is about, Mr. Keith? Or is there -- is there

18 one earlier that you're referring to in your

19 questioning?

20 MR. KEITH: The question, if I recall -- if I

21 recall what it exactly was, the question was what time

22 did the sheriff have a call with Ms. Peralta Haynes

23 where he found out that she had had a conversation with

24 Ms. Madison, and so this is to assist him in -- in

25 recollecting. I wasn't trying to pin down when the

763
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 first call was, but when the call was regarding this,

2 this particular conversation that Ms. Peralta Haynes had

3 had with Ms. Madison.

4 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Do you have the question

5 in mind, sir?

6 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

7 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay.

8 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

9 Yes, I believe so, that this is the first I'm

10 learning of contact between my wife, Ms. Peralta Haynes,

11 and then, I think, Ms. Madison.

12 MR. KEITH: Q. Was that in the first call that you

13 had with Ms. Madison reflected in the record? I'm

14 sorry. Let me rephrase that.

15 Was that in the first call with Ms. Peralta Haynes

16 that we have here reflected in Exhibit 83?

17 A. At 5:12 p.m.? Maybe. Maybe, because there

18 wasn't a lot of time to go into detail at all. But I

19 will say maybe.

20 Q. Okay. If it was -- and was it -- was it in

21 the first or second -- let me -- was it -- was it in a

22 call that you had with Ms. Peralta Haynes before you got

23 to the LAFCo meeting that you found out about that she

24 had had a conversation with Ms. Madison?

25 A. I remember that I was walking feverishly to

764
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 the LAFCo event because I was getting calls from people

2 there. Where am I? "You're late. You're late."

3 And I did have a phonecall with Ms. Peralta Haynes

4 while I was en route to Sol y Luna.

5 Q. Okay. And it was -- was that -- was it -- was

6 it in one of the conversations that you had with

7 Ms. Peralta Haynes before you got to Sol y Luna --

8 A. There was only --

9 Q. -- that she told you about the -- the

10 conversation that she had with Ivory Madison?

11 A. You know, maybe. Maybe. Because there was

12 only really one phonecall that I had with Ms. Haynes

13 where we connected. There had been some attempts, but

14 only one, I think, by the time I got to Sol y Luna.

15 Q. So was it at some point in the late afternoon

16 or evening of January 4th that you learned from

17 Ms. Peralta Haynes that she had had a conversation with

18 Ivory Madison earlier that afternoon?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Okay. What did Ms. Peralta Haynes tell you

21 about the content of that conversation with Ms. Madison?

22 A. It was very brief, very, very brief. She said

23 that Ms. Madison was apparently trying to -- she wasn't

24 listening to Eliana. Eliana was very concerned, scared,

25 and she thinks -- she thought the neighbor was crazy.

765
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. This is -- this is what Ms. Peralta Haynes

2 thought?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. What she informed you?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. And then she was characterizing -- she thought

8 the neighbor was just crazy, and she was very concerned

9 for Eliana.

10 Q. Did Ms. Peralta Haynes tell you about anything

11 that she suggested to the neighbor?

12 A. No, she didn't. She told me that she -- the

13 one phrase I remember, she said to the neighbor, "Please

14 respect Eliana."

15 Q. And "Please respect Eliana" meaning "don't

16 call the police about a domestic violence incident"?

17 A. No, she never qualified that to me. She just

18 said, "Please respect Eliana."

19 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm sorry. I'm confused.

20 You're saying that Ms. Haynes told you that she

21 said that to Ms. Madison?

22 THE WITNESS: That's what I recall.

23 MR. KEITH: Q. Did Ms. Haynes express an opinion

24 to you about what she thought about Ms. Madison calling

25 the police?

766
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. No, except the fact that she thought

2 Ms. Madison was -- it looked like was trying to hurt

3 Eliana and/or she was -- she didn't know what was going

4 on.

5 Q. So did Ms. Peralta Haynes express concern

6 about the im- -- the impact on you of the existence of a

7 police investigation?

8 A. She did, yes.

9 Q. What did she say?

10 A. To be aware that this is happening, but she

11 didn't really have to say anything. Just noting that

12 myself, I knew that that would have impact.

13 Q. Now, Sheriff, is domestic violence a laughing

14 matter?

15 A. Of course not.

16 Q. When people joke about domestic violence, they

17 devalue victims?

18 A. I think so.

19 Q. When people joke about domestic violence, they

20 make light of something that's in fact a serious crime?

21 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

22 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm going to overrule it.

23 THE WITNESS: Rephrase, please.

24 MR. KEITH: Q. When people joke about domestic

25 violence, they make light of something that's in fact a

767
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 serious crime?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. You made a joke about domestic violence at

4 your inauguration.

5 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, states facts not in

6 evidence.

7 THE WITNESS: I did not make a joke --

8 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

9 THE WITNESS: -- about domestic violence.

10 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, Sheriff. I didn't

11 understand.

12 THE WITNESS: I said I did not make a joke about

13 domestic violence. I would not.

14 MR. KEITH: Q. You didn't refer in a humorous

15 fashion to the existence of a police investigation of

16 what happened on December 31st?

17 A. Please clarify.

18 Q. Okay. Did you refer in a humorous way at your

19 inauguration speech to the police investigation that was

20 ongoing about what you did on December 31st?

21 A. If I did, that was certainly wrong of me, but

22 the answer is I don't believe I did at all.

23 MR. KEITH: Okay. For the commission, I'd like to

24 play a video at this point. In terms -- it's something

25 that we're happy to submit and mark and we can -- I

768
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 think our next exhibit in order would be Exhibit 24.

2 I'm sorry. 84.

3 COMMISSIONER HUR: Have you informed opposing

4 counsel what you're planning to show?

5 MR. KEITH: I have not.

6 COMMISSIONER HUR: What is it?

7 MR. KEITH: It's a -- it's a clip from the

8 Sheriff's inauguration speech.

9 COMMISSIONER HUR: And what is the purpose of the

10 request to play it?

11 MR. KEITH: Well, it's admissible as a party

12 admission. But it's -- he's making a joke about the

13 police investigation.

14 COMMISSIONER HUR: So you're -- you think it's a

15 prior inconsistent statement?

16 MR. KEITH: As well as a party admission.

17 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Any objection?

18 MR. WAGGONER: If I may have a moment?

19 COMMISSIONER HUR: Please.
20 Counsel, do you have a transcript of it or -- I

21 mean, typically --

22 MR. KEITH: I -- I don't have a transcript of it.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Counsel?

24 MR. KOPP: It's a little hard -- I'm sorry. It's a

25 little hard to know whether or not we should object

769
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 since we haven't seen it.

2 COMMISSIONER HUR: Yeah. I mean, if it's a

3 statement from your client, it's likely to come in. If

4 it's -- if you have an objection subsequently, we're not

5 a jury. We can -- we can disregard it if legally we

6 should.

7 MR. KEITH: And certainly if they believe that it's

8 incomplete and more needs to be shown, they have an

9 opportunity to.

10 COMMISSIONER HUR: Right. You'll have an

11 opportunity on redirect.

12 UNKNOWN MAN: Let me see if I can get this on the

13 screen.

14 MR. KEITH: Thank you.

15 (Video played as follows:

16 SHERIFF MIRKARIMI: ". . . reeducate

17 people what the sheriff's office does.

18 And like here today, I was even afraid,

19 like during the election itself, that we

20 would garner little media attention, but I

21 think we took care of that.

22 "The sheriff's department, the sheriff's

23 department that I walked into, is" --

24 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, is joking about a domestic

25 violence investigation the right thing for a sheriff to

770
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 do?

2 MR. WAGGONER: Objection --

3 THE WITNESS: I --

4 MR. WAGGONER: -- lacks foundation.

5 THE WITNESS: I did not joke about domestic

6 violence.

7 COMMISSIONER HUR: I will overrule the objection.

8 The answer is in.

9 MR. KEITH: Q. What was that joke about?

10 A. Breaking ice with a very stressful situation

11 that was being narrated by the press.

12 Q. That was a reference to the ongoing interest

13 in what happened between you and your wife on

14 December 31st?

15 A. That was referring specifically to the media.

16 Q. It was referring to the media's interest in

17 what happened on December 31st between you and your

18 wife?

19 A. It was referring to the media.

20 Q. Just the media in general?

21 A. Just what that clip said. It was referring to

22 the media, to the press, and I was making light of a

23 situation which was stressful and tension-based about

24 there being any interest in the inaugural proceedings.

25 Q. You knew that the basis for the media interest

771
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 in those inaugural proceedings was their interest in

2 what happened on December 31st between you and your

3 wife?

4 A. Not necessarily.

5 Q. You think that the media was so interested in

6 those proceedings because of some other issue?

7 A. That I was being inaugurated the 35th

8 Sheriff of the City and County of San Francisco, the

9 first time that there had been an open election for

10 sheriff in 32 years? I would hope that too.

11 Q. Sheriff, when you made that joke, what were

12 you referring to?

13 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

14 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm not sure we've gotten a

15 clear answer. Overruled.

16 THE WITNESS: Simply referring to the media

17 interest because there had been a lot of media interest,

18 but not making light of domestic violence, not at all.

19 MR. KEITH: Q. Were you referring to the media

20 interest in what happened between you and your wife on

21 December 31st?

22 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

24 THE WITNESS: I answered the question, and I

25 believe that I was referring to the media interest of

772
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 the inaugural and all the reasons that may have brought

2 them to the inaugural.

3 MR. KEITH: Q. Did those reasons that brought the

4 media to the inaugural and garnered -- and generated

5 media interest in the inaugural include what happened

6 between you and your wife on December 31st?

7 A. I cannot speak for the media. I only spoke to

8 the size of the media, and there was a sizable

9 contingent of media. That was my reference.

10 Q. Sheriff, you know that there was a sizable

11 contingent of media because of what happened between you

12 and your wife on December 31st and the police

13 investigation of that, do you not?

14 A. That could very well be.

15 Q. That was your assumption when you made that

16 remark, was it not?

17 A. That could very well be about the interest in

18 our inaugural.

19 Q. I didn't ask about the media. I asked about

20 what your assumption was about why the media was there

21 when you made that remark at your inauguration.

22 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, argumentative.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sheriff, I think we could move

24 on if we just got a clear answer from you on this.

25 THE WITNESS: Well, I'm speculating, but

773
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 my reason --

2 COMMISSIONER HUR: He's asking about your -- what

3 you were thinking when you made that remark. Were you

4 referring to the media attention that was -- resulted

5 from the investigation of the incident on

6 December 31st?

7 THE WITNESS: I was -- yes.

8 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Let's move on.

9 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, is domestic violence a

10 private, family matter?

11 A. It is not.

12 Q. When law enforcement treats domestic violence

13 as a private, family matter, it continues.

14 A. Is this a question?

15 Q. It is.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. When law enforcement treats domestic violence

18 as a private, family matter, it escalates?

19 MR. WAGGONER: Obj ection, calls for speculation.

20 COMMISSIONER HUR: Do you know, Sheriff?

21 THE WITNESS: Yes.

22 MR. KEITH: Q. Would you agree that when law

23 enforcement tells the public that domestic violence is a

24 private, family matter, that sends the wrong message to

25 victims?

774
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And would you agree that when law enforcement

3 announces that domestic violence is a private, family

4 matter, that sends the wrong message to perpetrators?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Sheriff, you were asked a question after your

7 inauguration by the media about the ongoing

8 investigation of the December 31st incident, were you

9 not?

10 A. I was asked a number of questions when I made

11 a statement, yes.

12 Q. And that -- and the statement that you made

13 was in response to a number of questions about that

14 December 31st incident?

15 A. I initiated the press conference with a

16 statement --

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. -- not in response.

19 Q. During that press conference, were you asked

20 about what happened on December 31st between you and

21 your wife?

22 A. I believe so.

23 Q. And in response to one of those questions, you

24 called domestic violence -- excuse me.

25 In response to one of those questions, you answered

775
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 that it was a private, family matter?

2 A. I believe I did.

3 Q. Should the sheriff be referring to a violent

4 incident that's under investigation between a man and

5 his wife as a private, family matter?

6 A. No.

7 Q. We just discussed all the negative effects of

8 law enforcement calling domestic violence a private,

9 family matter.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And you called this incident on

12 December 31st a private, family matter?

13 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

14 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

15 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, you knew when you made

16 those responses to the press what you had done on

17 December 31st?

18 A. Yes.

19 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, calls for speculation.

20 Vague.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: "Vague" is sustained.

22 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, when you made that remark

23 to the media that this was a private, family matter, in

24 your mind at that time, you knew that you had injured

25 your wife on December 31st?

776
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Okay. And at that time, when you called that

3 incident a private, family matter, you knew that what

4 you had done on December 31st was wrong?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Twenty or 30 years ago, law enforcement used

7 to treat domestic violence as a private, family matter?

8 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

9 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

10 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, are you aware of the

11 history of law enforcement treatment of domestic

12 violence and the advances that have been made in recent

13 decades with regard to treatment of domestic violence

14 incidents by law enforcement?

15 A. I am, yes.

16 Q. Okay. Are you in favor of those advances in

17 law enforcement treatment of domestic violence that have

18 occurred?

19 A. Yes, very much so.

20 Q. Advances like -- and are you in favor of the

21 policy of prosecuting domestic violence crimes where

22 there is evidence of domestic violence even if the

23 victim is noncooperative?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Now, Sheriff, I'd like you to -- I'd like to

777
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 move forward a few days, to the few days before your

2 arrest. Your arrest happened on January 13th. In the

3 days leading up to January 13th, you had a number of

4 calls with Linnette Peralta Haynes?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. You had a number of meetings with her

7 in those days?

8 A. I don't recall how many meetings exactly, but

9 not many.

10 Q. Okay. Did you have discussions about what

11 kind of message you wanted to be sending out to the

12 media about what happened on December 31st and what

13 charges might arise from it?

14 A. I believe the conversation came up, yes.

15 Q. Okay. And you had the -- you had those

16 conversations with your political advisors?

17 A. I -- volunteers, advisors. People often were

18 coming to me, making suggestions.

19 Q. You had those conversations about media

20 strategy with Linnette Peralta Haynes?

21 A. I think Ms. Peralta Haynes was making

22 suggestions or texting me suggestions.

23 Q. Okay. Who else was involved in developing a

24 media strategy in response to the potential for criminal

25 charges?

778
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Well, there wasn't much of a media strategy,

2 but people who would, I think, participate or speak were

3 Jim Stearns, who's the consultant that I hired during my

4 campaign for sheriff, and my attorney then, Bob

5 Waggener.

6 Q. Now, Sheriff, could you -- there's an exhibit

7 in your exhibit binder, Exhibit 81. Can you turn to

8 that exhibit?

9 A. Yes.

10 COMMISSIONER HUR: Mr. Keith, you gave a one-hour

11 time estimate yesterday. How much more do you think you

12 have?

13 MR. KEITH: Commissioners, I apologize. I think I

14 have -- I have more. I think I have about 40 or 45

15 minutes more.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Why don't -- why don't

17 you proceed. I don't know whether we can -- Counsel,

18 whether you need to notify your client. It does not

19 look like we will have the mayor at 11:00 o'clock.

20 MR. KEITH: Okay.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: Please proceed.

22 MR. KEITH: Thank you.

23 Q. So Sheriff, are you at Exhibit 81?

24 A. Yes.

25 MR. KEITH: Okay. Now, for the commission,

779
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Exhibit 81 is a series of text messages between Sheriff

2 Mirkarimi and Linnette Peralta Haynes.

3 THE WITNESS: Yes.

4 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, Sheriff, I'm going to ask you

5 to -- to go -- well, first of all, before we go to a

6 particular message, there was a rally in front of City

7 Hall by domestic violence advocates in the few days

8 before you were arrested. Do you recall that rally

9 occurring?

10 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

11 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

12 MR. KEITH: Q. I'm laying a foundation for the

13 subsequent message, to provide context that -- to

14 something that is relevant.

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: Why don't you -- why don't you

16 get to the main issue?

17 MR. KEITH: Okay.

18 COMMISSIONER HUR: And if there's an objection and

19 we need --

20 MR. KEITH: Okay.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: -- to go back and establish

22 foundation, we can.

23 MR. KEITH: Okay.

24 Q. Sheriff, would you turn to -- and I apologize

25 to the commission for these pages being unnumbered, but

780
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 there are -- there's a text message on January 12th

2 that's at 4:04 p.m. that I wanted -- I wanted to ask the

3 sheriff about. It's about eight or nine pages in. And

4 it's actually -- it's shown on -- on two different

5 pages, but the second page shows the full text message.

6 So Sheriff, looking at this January 12th,

7 4:04 p.m. text message, this is a text message that you

8 sent Linnette Peralta Haynes?

9 A. I'm sorry. At 4:04? Yes.

10 Q. And in that text message, you're expressing

11 dismay that -- that Beverly Upton has been part of a

12 rally of domestic violence advocates calling for your

13 resignation.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And you mention that you've always been a

16 fervent supporter of the DV community.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And therefore, you were concerned about how

19 the domestic violence community seemed to not be

20 supporting you.

21 A. Not communicating with me.

22 Q. Did you have any concerns that they weren't

23 supporting you?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Did you feel betrayed by the domestic violence

781
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 community?

2 A. Wouldn't say "betrayed," but I would say

3 alarmed.

4 Q. Did you feel that you had been loyal to them

5 in the past?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Did you feel that they were being disloyal to

8 you by not supporting you?

9 A. No, I was alarmed by the lack of

10 communication.

11 Q. Okay. So you had no concerns about the

12 substantive position that they were taking that you

13 should resign?

14 A. I had concerns, yes.

15 Q. Okay. And those concerns stemmed in part from

16 the fact that you had -- that you had supported their

17 causes in the past and you felt betrayed?

18 A. Well, that I had a strong relationship with

19 not the community, but with the cause.

20 Q. And then we have -- there's a line here in

21 this text message that says, "Am I really guilty until

22 proven innocent?" You see that?

23 A. I do.

24 Q. Okay. You had sent -- you sent that message

25 to Ms. Peralta Haynes on January 12th?

782
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes. In response to her message, yes.

2 Q. Okay. And you were concerned that you were --

3 that you were being treated as guilty until proven

4 innocent?

5 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance. I don't

6 understand the relevance of this line of questioning.

7 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm not sure I do either, but

8 this exhibit was stipulated. It's in evidence. So I'm

9 going to let him ask it, but I would like to get to the

10 point.

11 You may answer the question.

12 THE WITNESS: I -- yes, because this is before I

13 was charged and no process had unfolded yet.

14 MR. KEITH: Q. But you knew at the time that you

15 sent this text message that you had injured your wife?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And as you told us last night, you in fact

18 committed a crime on December 31st?

19 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

20 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

21 MR. KEITH: Q. And you reference here "political

22 forces at work."

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. You felt that there were political

25 forces at work to prosecute you?

783
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

2 COMMISSIONER HUR: Getting close, Mr. Keith. I'm

3 going to overrule it, but what is your point?

4 You may answer.

5 THE WITNESS: I am speculating. Yes.

6 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, Sheriff, can you turn to --

7 it's a -- it's a text message that's further in. It's

8 still a text message on January 12th. It's about six

9 pages in. It begins with "Quite agree." And it's

10 actually shown on two pages, and the second page shows

11 the full message.

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: Can you give us a date and time?

13 MR. KEITH: It's a January 12th, and it's -- it's

14 immediately above a text message that was sent at

15 10:05 p.m.

16 THE WITNESS: Yes.

17 MR. KEITH: Q. So Sheriff, this is the text

18 message that you sent to Linnette Peralta Haynes?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Okay. And in this text message, are you --

21 you state, "a loud drum beat needs to vibe that this is

22 a political witch hunt."

23 What does it mean -- what did you mean when you

24 said "a loud drum beat needs to vibe"?

25 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

784
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

2 THE WITNESS: That our messaging needs to get out;

3 that concerns exchanged between Ms. Haynes, Peralta

4 Haynes, and myself was that we had been quiet.

5 MR. KEITH: Q. And the message that had to get out

6 was that this was all political?

7 A. It appeared, yes.

8 Q. Okay. Well, I'm asking you, what message did

9 you intend to send out on January 12th? What message

10 did you say you wanted to send out on January 12th?

11 A. Well, in response, just what I said, that -- a

12 vibe that needs to vibe that this is a witch hunt.

13 Q. And you wanted that to be the media strategy?

14 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance, asked and

15 answered.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: I think It's been answered.

17 Sustained.

18 MR. KEITH: Okay.

19 Q. Sheriff, you knew at the time that you sent

20 this message that you had injured your wife on

21 December 31st?

22 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: I think it's foundational.

24 Overruled.

25 THE WITNESS: Yes.

785
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 MR. KEITH: Q. You knew that a crime -- that you

2 had actually committed a crime?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Whose political witch hunt was it?

5 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

6 MR. KEITH: Q. Who was behind it?

7 COMMISSIONER HUR: Wait. There's an objection

8 pending.

9 MR. KEITH: Oh, I'm --

10 COMMISSIONER HUR: Are you withdrawing the

11 question? Did you withdraw the question since you've

12 made another one?

13 MR. KEITH: I can -- I can -- I can offer another

14 question that's more --

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay.

16 MR. KEITH: -- full.

17 Q. Sheriff, the drumbeat that needed to vibe that

18 this is a political witch hunt, what was the drumbeat

19 about who was behind the political witch hunt that you

20 wanted to send out?

21 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance, asked and

22 answered.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm going to overrule it.

24 THE WITNESS: Potential opponents from the previous

25 campaign which we were -- I was aware of, that this was

786
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 an opportunity to make whatever capital/hay out of what

2 was occurring.

3 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, your opponents in the

4 sheriff's race, neither of them was in the district

5 attorney's office. Right?

6 A. No.

7 Q. I'm sorry. I -- the question was confusing.

8 Both of your opponents in the sheriff's race, they

9 were in law enforcement. Correct?

10 A. Well, there was actually three opponents --

11 Q. I'm sorry.

12 A. -- but two active opponents were in law

13 enforcement, correct.

14 Q. Okay. Were any of your opponents in the

15 sheriff's race in the D.A.'.s. office?

16 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

17 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

18 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. Was part of the message that

19 you wanted to send out was that the district attorney

20 was on a political witch hunt to get you?

21 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance, asked and

22 answered.

23 MR. KEITH: I'm happy to address the relevance

24 objection, and this has not been asked and answered --

25 asked and answered.

787
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER HUR: It hasn't been asked and

2 answered. You may address the relevancy objection.

3 MR. KEITH: The objection goes to relations with

4 other law enforcement agencies. I'm sorry. The

5 relevance goes to relations with another law enforcement

6 agency, that it's accusing another law enforcement

7 agency of political action when the sheriff knows that

8 he's committed a crime.

9 COMMISSIONER HUR: So -- can you read back the

10 question, please?

11 (Record read as follows:

12 "Q Was part of the message that you

13 wanted to send out was that the district

14 attorney was on a political witch hunt to

15 get you?")

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll overrule the objection.

17 THE WITNESS: The question again, please?

18 MR. KEITH: Madam Court Reporter, can you reread

19 the question?

20 (Record read as follows:

21 "Q Was part of the message that you

22 wanted to send out was that the district

23 attorney was on a political witch hunt to

24 get you?")

25 THE WITNESS: No.

788
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 MR. KEITH: Q. Did you instruct your -- the people

2 sending out the media message to stay away from attacks

3 on the district attorney?

4 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

5 THE WITNESS: I did not instruct at all.

6 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

7 THE WITNESS: Any messaging or discussion that took

8 place was speculative.

9 MR. KEITH: Q. So you had -- so you gave -- who

10 did you give a direction to send out this vibe? Did you

11 give Linnette Peralta Haynes a direction to send out

12 that vibe, that this is a political witch hunt?

13 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

14 COMMISSIONER HUR: Counsel, a couple more questions

15 on this, but we're getting far afield. I'm going to

16 allow this one.

17 THE WITNESS: No.

18 MR. KEITH: Q. Did you tell anybody to send out a

19 vibe that this is a political witch hunt?

20 A. Well, I believe I answered that in speculation

21 to an exchange, a text exchange with Ms. Peralta Haynes.

22 What resulted is not, but just an exchange.

23 Q. So you exchanged text messages with Linnette

24 Peralta Haynes about a matter of strategy, a matter of

25 media strategy. Did you take any action to implement

789
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 that medi a strategy?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Okay. Did anybody take any action to

4 implement that media strategy?

5 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, calls for speculation.

6 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

7 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. Let me put it this way: If

8 anybody took steps to implement that media strategy, you

9 don't know about it?

10 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, calls for speculation.

11 How would my client know that?

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

13 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, Sheriff, at one point you met

14 with members of the Deputy Sheriffs' Association to

15 discuss the charges against you?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. What did you tell them in that meeting?

18 A. I don't recall word for word, but explaining

19 to them the situation so that they would be aware that I

20 was still able and capable and that the sheriff's

21 department would continue to run well.

22 Q. Okay. Now, just to step back, the Deputy

23 Sheriffs' Association, that's -- that's the union of

24 sheriff's deputies?

25 A. Yes, but there's two unions in the sheriff's

790
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 department.

2 Q. Okay. And there's another union for command

3 staff?

4 A. Management.

5 Q. Yes. And then there's the Deputy Sheriffs'

6 Association, which is the line deputies?

7 A. That's right.

8 Q. Okay. When did you meet with the Deputy

9 Sheriffs' Association to talk about the charges against

10 you?

11 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll hear argument on it.

13 MR. WAGGONER: There's nothing in the mayor's

14 charges regarding any meeting with the Deputy Sheriffs'

15 Association. There's been no foundation of how any such

16 meeting may be connected to the charges. There's

17 nothing at all about the Deputy Sheriffs' Association

18 that's related to the charges of official misconduct.

19 COMMISSIONER HUR: Is this going to a prior

20 inconsistent statement?

21 MR. KEITH: It's going to -- yes, and it's going to

22 leadership issues, which are a part of -- a part of the

23 charges and part of the standard of conduct for a chief

24 law enforcement officer.

25 COMMISSIONER HUR: Get there quickly.

791
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 MR. KEITH: Okay.

2 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

3 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, when did you meet with the

4 Deputy Sheriffs' Association?

5 A. You would have to help me refresh my memory.

6 Q. Okay. Was it after charges had been filed

7 against you?

8 A. Again, you would have to help me refresh my

9 memory.

10 Q. Okay. It was after it came to light that

11 there was a police investigation that you met with the

12 Deputy Sheriffs' Association?

13 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

14 COMMISSIONER HUR: It's a different question. I'll

15 overrule it.

16 THE WITNESS: I met with the Deputy Sheriffs'

17 Association to continue to update them as to what was

18 occurring.

19 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. And the first time you met

20 with the Deputy Sheriffs' Association, did you tell them

21 that you were going to fight the charges?

22 A. I believe I -- I would, yes.

23 Q. And did you tell them that you didn't do it?

24 A. I would have to see a record of that.

25 Q. Do you remember -- did you tell them that you

792
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 didn't do it?

2 A. I -- I may have, yes, but that I was going to

3 fight the charges, yes.

4 Q. And at that time when you had that meeting

5 with the Deputy Sheriffs' Association, you knew that you

6 had in fact injured your wife on December 31st?

7 A. I -- yes.

8 Q. Okay. But you told them that you didn't do

9 it?

10 A. I said that I was going to fight the charges,

11 I believe, yes.

12 Q. Okay. You said you were going to fight the

13 charges?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Okay. And you don't recall, but you may have

16 said that you didn't do it?

17 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

18 COMMISSIONER HUR: I think the second part is

19 unclear.

20 MR. KEITH: Okay.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll allow it.

22 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff -- Sheriff, you may answer.

23 A. It would be helpful if I had a transcript.

24 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sheriff, is your testimony that

25 you don't remember whether you said you didn't do it?

793
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 THE WITNESS: Yes, that is my testimony.

2 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, Sheriff, you were arrested on

3 January 30 -- on January 13th, 2012?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. You came down to county jail in the company of

6 your attorney at that time, a Mr. Waggener, not Mr.

7 Waggoner here, but a different Mr. Waggener?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you met Inspector Daniele and Inspector

10 Becker of the San Francisco Police Department at county

11 jail?

12 A. I believe there were four inspectors

13 altogether.

14 Q. Do you remember Inspector Becker and Inspector

15 Daniele being two of the gentlemen who were there from

16 the police department?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And those inspectors from the police

19 department, Daniele and Becker, placed you under arrest?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. They served you with an emergency protective

22 order?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. They explained to you the provisions of the

25 emergency protective order?

794
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes.

2 Q. They explained to you that this emergency

3 protective -- protective order prohibited you from

4 owning or possessing any firearms?

5 A. Ye s.

6 Q. Inspectors Becker and Daniele advised you that

7 you had to surrender all of your firearms?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. They advised you that there were three

10 weapons registered to you?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. There was a -- there was a Smith & Wesson

13 revolver registered to you?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. A SIG Sauer pistol registered to you?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And a Beretta pistol registered to you?

18 A. Right, yes.

19 Q. And did you make any statements to the police

20 inspectors about how many weapons you had?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Okay. Did you tell the police inspectors that

23 you only had two weapons?

24 A. That I wasn't sure about the location of the

25 third, yes.

795
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Okay. Let's take this step by step. You told

2 the police that you certainly had two of these three

3 weapons?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Didn't you tell the police that you had sold

6 your Smith & Wesson revolver to another recruit at the

7 police academy in 1996?

8 A. I was speculating because it had been since

9 the academy that I had unearthed the weapon and I was

10 flustered. I was trying to recall where the weapon was

11 because they were asking me, and I was thinking out

12 loud.

13 Q. Did you know the location at the time -- let

14 me strike that.

15 At the time when you spoke with Inspectors Becker

16 and Daniele, did you know the location of your Beretta

17 and your SIG Sauer pistols?

18 A. I did.

19 Q. Where were they located?

20 A. Downstairs in a storage room. I was having to

21 focus because a lot was happening at that very moment.

22 But downstairs in our condo, there's a storage area, and

23 that is where the SIG .40 caliber and Beretta .9 were

24 located in a cabinet.

25 Q. And the storage area where they were located

796
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 in your building, is that a shared storage area?

2 A. It is not.

3 Q. Okay. Is it a separate storage area,

4 dedicated to you?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. And within that storage area, where

7 were the guns?

8 A. In a cabinet, in a -- they were stored in a

9 cabinet, large, tall cabinet where they were stored.

10 Q. Okay. Did the cabinet itself have a lock on

11 it?

12 A. It did.

13 MR. WAGGONER: Objection.

14 THE WITNESS: And --

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: The answer's in.

16 THE WITNESS: And the door to the storage area was

17 both padlocked and bolt-locked.

18 MR. KEITH: Q. And where was your Smith & Wesson

19 revolver?

20 A. Also in the same location, different cabinet.

21 Q. When you say "same location," you mean within

22 your storage unit?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. But not with your other pistols?

25 A. That's right.

797
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Okay. So in this conversation with inspectors

2 Becker and Daniele, is it your testimony that you told

3 them that you didn't -- that you didn't know where your

4 Smith & Wesson gun was or whether you even still owned

5 it?

6 A. I believe so. I was flustered because I

7 wanted to be specific, and I was trying to be as

8 specific as I could. And at that moment, I wanted to be

9 as precise as I possibly could. The storage room was a

10 mess.

11 Q. So Inspector Becker and Inspector Daniele told

12 you that they would give you 24 hours to locate your

13 weapons?

14 A. I recall so, yes.

15 Q. Okay. And Inspector Becker and Inspector

16 Daniele also asked you for proof of sale of the Smith &

17 Wesson revolver?

18 A. I believe so.

19 Q. And you made an agreement with Inspector

20 Becker and Inspector Daniele that your attorney would

21 contact them and turn the weapons over to them the next

22 day?

23 A. Yes. I allowed my attorney, who stepped in,

24 to facilitate the conversation from there on.

25 Q. Okay. And that was the agreement that was

798
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 made in that conversation?

2 A. I believe so.

3 Q. Okay. You were present when that agreement

4 was made?

5 A. I -- yes.

6 Q. Okay. At any point in that conversation down

7 there at county jail with Inspector Becker and Inspector

8 Daniele, was it ever discussed that you would be turning

9 the weapons over to the San Francisco Sheriff's

10 Department instead?

11 A. I left that to my attorney, because when I was

12 being processed, my attorney was then continuing

13 whatever conversation he had with the inspectors.

14 Q. During the time when you were present for this

15 discussion about what was going to be done with the

16 weapons, was it ever discussed that these weapons would

17 be turned over to the sheriff's department instead of

18 the police department?

19 A. I believe so, but again, I was allowing my

20 attorney to facilitate that exchange.

21 Q. Sheriff, the question is about the

22 conversation that occurred when you were present, not

23 about conversations that may have occurred when you were

24 not present.

25 A. No, I'm talking about when I was present.

799
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. So when you were present, it's your testimony

2 that it was -- that the -- that it was discussed the

3 weapons would be turned over to the sheriff's department

4 instead of the police department?

5 A. And the reason why is that I was not allowed

6 to go home. There was a stay-away order, and so I was

7 thinking out loud about the location of the weapons so

8 that there would be a precise procurement possession of

9 the weapons. That's why that conversation entered in.

10 Q. Sheriff, I -- I don't understand your answer.

11 I'm -- I'm going to try and ask the question in a

12 different way.

13 While you were present, did you raise the prospect

14 of you turning the weapons over to the sheriff's

15 department?

16 A. I did not, no.

17 Q. Okay. While that discussion was occurring,

18 while you were present, did your attorney discuss with

19 inspectors -- Inspector Becker and Inspector Daniele

20 turning the weapons over to the sheriff's department?

21 A. I believe he did, yes.

22 Q. And was that agreement made, that that's how

23 it was going to happen, that the weapons were going to

24 be turned over to the sheriff's department?

25 A. Well, that was my impression, yes.

800
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Okay. So when you left that meeting, it was

2 your impression that the weapons were going to be turned

3 over to the sheriff's department and not the police

4 department?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. As -- as instructions by my attorney.

8 Q. Okay. So it was the impression that you got

9 based on a conversation you had with your attorney or

10 based on the conversation that you had with inspectors

11 Becker and Daniele?

12 A. Well, my attorney was present during the

13 conversation, and based on the discussion that was

14 taking place, I understood that the weapons would be

15 turned over to the police department. But over the

16 Saturday -- I believe it was the Saturday -- that it

17 would be first handed over to the sheriff's department.

18 Q. Okay. And this is the discussion that you had

19 with inspectors Becker and Daniele?

20 A. No, it is what my attorney had instructed me

21 or had suggested to me.

22 Q. Okay. So your information about any

23 conversation that may have been had with inspectors

24 Becker and Daniele isn't firsthand; is that correct?

25 A. Yes and no. Part of it was firsthand and part

801
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 of it was not.

2 Q. On this specific issue of whether the weapons

3 were going to be turned over to the sheriff's department

4 rather than the police department, were you present for

5 any such discussion at county jail?

6 A. I believe it was mentioned, yes, by my

7 attorney to the inspectors.

8 Q. Okay. While you were there? Was it mentioned

9 while you were there by your attorney to the inspectors?

10 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

11 COMMISSIONER HUR: Counsel, to me, it's clear. He

12 has said that they were there. He was there, the lawyer

13 was there, Inspector Daniele was there, and this issue

14 was discussed. That's -- that is the -- my impression

15 of the testimony, so I think it's -- I think you've got

16 that. So let's -- why don't you get to whatever point

17 you're trying to make with this line?

18 MR. KEITH: Q. So Sheriff, what did you understand

19 your agreement to be with those police inspectors when

20 you finished the discussion with them?

21 A. Regarding the weapons?

22 Q. Yes.

23 A. My understanding, as it was relayed by the

24 police inspectors to me with my attorney present, that

25 the weapons would be located by my attorney; that the

802
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 attorney would acquire the weapons and then facilitate

2 an exchange with a representative in the sheriff's

3 department and then hand them to the San Francisco

4 Police Department.

5 Q. So part of the agreement would be that your

6 attorney would go to your home and retrieve the weapons?

7 A. He or have somebody a proxy to do so, correct.

8 Q. Now, did it come to your attention on Saturday

9 that the police inspectors wanted to get your weapons?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Did you make any calls to anyone in the

12 sheriff's department with regard to your weapons on

13 Friday or Saturday? This is the 13th and the 14th.

14 A. I don't recall if I called my -- anybody in

15 the sheriff's department, but I do recall asking my

16 attorney if they were successfully acquired.

17 Q. Did you give your attorney any direction with

18 regard to contacting people in the sheriff's department?

19 A. No, except the fact that my attorney knew

20 already, beforehand, the contact of retired Undersheriff

21 Jan Dempsey, and made contact with her, I believe.

22 MR. KEITH: Okay. I'm going to move to strike

23 everything after the word "no."

24 COMMISSIONER HUR: Will you read back the question,

25 please?

803
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 THE REPORTER: The question, sir, or the answer?

2 COMMISSIONER HUR: The question.

3 (Record read as follows:

4 "Q Did you give your attorney any

5 direction with regard to contacting people

6 in the sheriff's department?")

7 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled. Open-ended question.

8 MR. KEITH: Q. Were you contacted by anyone on

9 Saturday, January 14th, with regard to the status of

10 your weapons?

11 A. I believe my attorney, yes.

12 Q. Anyone else?

13 A. May have been contacted by Undersheriff Jan

14 Dempsey, yes.

15 Q. What was that con- -- what conversation did

16 you have with Undersheriff Dempsey on Saturday, the

17 14th?

18 A. I -- I'm trying to recall, but it might have

19 been that they were in conversation with our attorney.

20 That's it. With the attorney about the weapons.

21 Q. And who initiated the call with Undersheriff

22 Dempsey? Did she call you or did you call her?

23 A. I don't recall. I'm sorry.

24 Q. Did you give her any direction in that call?

25 A. No.

804
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Did she ask for any direction in that call?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Did she give you any information about w hat

4 was going to happen as a result of that call?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Did she give you any information about her

7 intentions about what to do after that call?

8 A. Other than she must abide by the order and by

9 the normal procedures for, I think, acquiring weapons.

10 Q. Now, Sheriff, the weapons weren't actually

11 transferred to the police department until after a court

12 order was issued?

13 A. I believe so.

14 Q. What conversations, if any, did you have with

15 the members of the sheriff's department with regard to

16 your weapons between Saturday, January 14th, and the

17 issuance of that court order later the following week?

18 A. I believe none.

19 Q. Did you get any information from the sheriff's

20 department about the status of your weapons during that

21 time?

22 A. Only that they had received them over the

23 weekend, and that's it. I never asked further.

24 Q. Did you give any direction to the sheriff's

25 department with regard to your weapons over that time?

805
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. No.

2 Q. Now, Sheriff, to prosecute crimes, law

3 enforcement depends on witnesses to come forward.

4 Correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And domestic violence is an under-reported

7 crime. Correct?

8 A. I believe it is, yes.

9 Q. Okay. Witnesses are needed to prosecute

10 domestic violence crimes?

11 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

13 THE WITNESS: Yes.

14 MR. KEITH: Q. And if witnesses don't come

15 forward, then domestic violence victims remain in the

16 shadows?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Now, Sheriff, in open court when you were --

19 when you pled guilty, you made a statement?

20 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, lacks foundation.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: I think he's establishing it.

22 Is that a question?

23 MR. KEITH: Yes.

24 THE WITNESS: Yes.

25 MR. KEITH: Now, Commissioners, the statement is at

806
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Exhibit 36.

2 MR. EMBLIDGE: Does the witness have copies?

3 MR. KEITH: I believe -- oh, I'm sorry. It's in

4 Volume I.

5 MS. KAISER: That's correct. Thank you, Counsel.

6 MR. KEITH: Q. So, Sheriff, have you found

7 Exhibit 36 in that binder?

8 A. Almost.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. Yes.

11 MR. KEITH: Okay. Well, Commissioners, I'd like to

12 read the statement that the sheriff made as a party

13 admission, and then I'm going to proceed and ask him

14 some questions about it.

15 This is at Exhibit 36, page 4, line 18, through

16 page 5, line 1. It begins with the defendant as the

17 speaker, and the words are, "Thank you, your Honor. I

18 want to be back with my family, and I want this to end.

19 I would like to offer my sincere apology to Ms. Madison,

20 her family, my neighbors, my department, the Sheriffs'

21 Department, and the people of San Francisco.

22 "I realize that what was reported to the police was

23 out of desire to help my family. I truly regret that

24 these proceedings may have caused the Madison family or

25 anyone any suffering, grief, embarrassment, or

807
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 harassment, or damage to their reputations. I want to

2 thank the District Attorney and my counsel for their

3 professionalism."

4 Q. Sheriff, when you made that apology to Ivory

5 Madison and her family, did you mean it?

6 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

7 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

8 THE WITNESS: Yes.

9 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, you realize that what occurred

10 during the criminal proceedings included a lot of

11 stories in the newspapers regarding Ivory Madison?

12 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

13 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

14 THE WITNESS: The question again?

15 MR. KEITH: Q. At the time you made this apology,

16 you knew that there had been many stories in the

17 newspaper about Ivory Madison that painted her in a not

18 very flattering way?

19 A. I -- I believe so.

20 Q. Okay. She was painted as a -- as a -- as a

21 fake lawyer?

22 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, calls for speculation.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: If you know, you may answer.

24 THE WITNESS: I believe so.

25 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. She was -- she was portrayed

808
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 as a -- as a crazy feminist radical?

2 A. I -- I don't know.

3 Q. Okay. She was portrayed as a -- as a tool of

4 people -- of your political enemies?

5 A. No.

6 Q. You don't think she was ever portrayed that

7 way in the media?

8 A. I don't --

9 MR. WAGGONER: Objection. I don't understand how

10 the media's portrayal of Ms. Madison is related to the

11 charges.

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: It's pretty tangential. We have

13 allowed some testimony with respect to how she was

14 portrayed in the media.

15 Mr. Keith, get to the point.

16 MR. KEITH: Okay.

17 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'm going to let this one in.

18 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, part of your criminal --

19 part of your criminal defense strategy was a press

20 strategy?

21 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, attorney-client

22 privilege.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

24 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, during the time the

25 charges were pending against you, you spoke with

809
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 political consultants outside the presence of attorneys,

2 didn't you?

3 A. Maybe.

4 Q. Okay. And in those conversations with

5 political consultants, you discussed media strategy?

6 A. I -- I'm sure, yes.

7 Q. Okay. And that was -- and media strategy was

8 part of your defense strategy?

9 A. I don't know if I can say it was or not.

10 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, attorney-client

11 privilege.

12 THE WITNESS: Counsel, that -- that question was

13 asked and the objection sustained.

14 MR. KEITH: Okay.

15 Q. Now, Ms. Madison reported an incident that

16 occurred between you and your wife on December 31st.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. And that is an incident in which you

19 committed a violent act against your wife?

20 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

22 MR. KEITH: Okay.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Mr. Keith, you've gone well over

24 your time.

25 MR. KEITH: Okay.

810
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER HUR: If you're going to ask the same

2 questions --

3 MR. KEITH: Okay.

4 COMMISSIONER HUR: -- it's problematic.

5 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, before March 12th, did

6 you make any public statements to disavow any of these

7 portrayals of Ivory Madison that were in the media?

8 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

9 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

10 THE WITNESS: I don't believe I made any public

11 statements at all.

12 MR. KEITH: Q. Did you ever direct anyone not to

13 make attacks on Ivory Madison?

14 A. I never directed anybody to attack or not

15 attack.

16 Q. Sheriff, is it your testimony that on

17 December 31st, after you and your wife returned home

18 from that trip to the restaurant, there was no argument

19 at all in the house?

20 A. My wife and I did not go to the restaurant

21 together. My wife went to the restaurant on her own.

22 Q. Sheriff, I'm talking about this lunchtime trip

23 to the restaurant in the van on December 31st that --

24 where you turned around the van.

25 A. There was no argument in the house. There was

811
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 not.

2 Q. None whatsoever?

3 A. None whatsoever.

4 Q. Okay. There was absol- -- and it's your

5 testimony there was no physical contact in the house?

6 A. No, not unwelcomed.

7 Q. Your testimony that there was no pushing,

8 pulling, or grabbing in the house?

9 A. None, no.

10 Q. Okay. Just a single grab in the van. That's

11 your testimony?

12 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

13 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

14 MR. KEITH: Q. Okay. Now, Sheriff, after you were

15 convicted and sentenced, the mayor met with you?

16 A. Yes, he met with me twice.

17 Q. There was a meeting you had with the mayor

18 where he gave you a choice. He said you could resign or

19 you would be suspended and he would initiate misconduct

20 charges against you?

21 A. That's right.

22 Q. Now --

23 A. I'm sorry, I misspoke. When I meant twice, I

24 meant before and after me entering a plea.

25 Q. Okay. I'm referring to -- so it sounds like

812
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 when the mayor gave you this choice, that was after --

2 after --

3 A. That's --

4 Q. It was the second of those two meetings?

5 A. That's correct, yes.

6 Q. Okay. And that meeting was after you were

7 actually sentenced. On March 19th, you were

8 sentenced?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And that -- that second meeting with the mayor

11 where he gave you a choice between resigning or

12 suspension was after you were sentenced?

13 A. That is correct.

14 Q. Okay. As of that time, you had been

15 convicted?

16 A. Sentenced, yes.

17 Q. Convicted and sentenced?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Okay. You were on probation?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay. And you were at the very beginning of

22 your three years of probation?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You had let down the sheriff's department?

25 A. Yes.

813
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 Q. Under those circumstances, wasn't the

2 honorable thing to do to resign?

3 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, calls for speculation,

4 lacks foundation, irrelevant.

5 MR. KEITH: A chief law enforcement officer can

6 certainly testify as to what is considered to be

7 honorable under the circumstances.

8 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll -- I'll allow the question.

9 THE WITNESS: That's a hard question, and the

10 answer is a hard one too. I believe that given the

11 choices that had been presented to me by the mayor, I

12 did exactly as I should.

13 MR. KEITH: Okay. Nothing further. Thank you.

14 COMMISSIONER HUR: Thank you, Counsel.

15 Redirect?

16 MR. WAGGONER: May I request a five-minute recess?

17 COMMISSIONER HUR: Actually, that's possibly a good

18 idea so we can give the court reporter a break. We'll

19 take five minutes. Thank you.

20 (Recess taken from 11:09 a.m. to 11:21 a.m.)

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: We're back in session.

22 Mr. Sheriff, you remain under oath.

23 Are the microphones on?

24 MS. ARGUMEDO: Yes.

25 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Mr. Waggoner, please

814
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 proceed.

2 MR. WAGGONER: Good morning, Commissioners. I'll

3 try to keep my questions brief.

4 ---o0o---

5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. WAGGONER:

6 MR. WAGGONER: Q. Sheriff, I'd like to take you

7 back to the morning of December 31st, 2011. You

8 testified earlier that you had an argument with your

9 wife. Can you tell us, what was that argument about?

10 A. It was about an impending trip that my wife,

11 Eliana, had informed me of that she was going to take to

12 Venezuela, potentially a rather long trip, and this is

13 not an unfamiliar discussion that we've had in the past

14 because of previous trips that had taken place.

15 Q. And why did you become upset?

16 A. I became upset because of a trip that took

17 place about five to six months earlier where my wife had

18 taken our son, which I was very supportive of. I was

19 under the impression that that trip would be for several

20 weeks, and it turned out to be over two months, and I

21 was -- and that's not the first time that that had

22 happened, and I was sad and scared to be without my

23 family, to be without both my wife and son.

24 Q. Why? Why is that?

25 A. Well, I think for any -- well, at least for

815
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 myself, being a parent, I mean, I -- I love my family,

2 and I didn't want to be without my son for that long a

3 period of time.

4 Q. Why does talking about your son upset you?

5 MR. KEITH: Objection, lacks foundation.

6 COMMISSIONER HUR: I think he's testified -- I'm

7 not sure, actually, you got upset.

8 I will sustain the objection. You can lay the

9 foundation.

10 MR. WAGGONER: Q. So you mentioned -- you

11 testified that that morning, you became upset, and you

12 had an argument with your wife about a trip, a

13 planned -- a possible trip to Venezuela.

14 A. Well, my wife had declared -- I'm sorry. I

15 should let you finish.

16 Q. What was it about that particular argument?

17 What was said that made you so upset?

18 A. Of experiencing the loss and separation again

19 for an undetermined period of time, indeterminate period

20 of time of how long we would be apart. This springs

21 from a previous quarrel that we had and longstanding

22 conversations about long trips abroad where she would

23 take our son, Theo, and they would be a lot longer than

24 had been initially agreed upon.

25 Q. And prior to the morning of December 31st,

816
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 2011, had you discussed with your wife another trip to

2 Venezuela?

3 A. In a general way, yes. In a general way, but

4 it was only in that morning on our way to lunch had I

5 been informed that there was an impending trip.

6 Q. Well, what was it about that particular trip

7 at that time that made you upset?

8 A. Well, as we had discussed and argued, I wanted

9 to make sure that there was a plan. And this is

10 something that I spoke with in previous correspondence

11 and e-mails with my wife the last time that they were in

12 Venezuela, that we would have a plan as to how long, you

13 know, there would be the separation for.

14 And I had been concerned as a parent, not knowing

15 the previous trip all the immigration issues and custody

16 issues that had been involved when another parent takes

17 their child for a long period of time. And I was really

18 insisting and hoping that we had a plan about what that

19 duration of time would be. That was the body of the

20 argument.

21 Q. How do you feel about what happened on the

22 31st, December 31st, 2011, now? How do you feel

23 about what you said and did?

24 A. I wish I can turn back the clock, of course.

25 I feel horrible, ashamed. I just -- just -- just all

817
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 that.

2 Q. Let me move forward now, Sheriff. We've heard

3 testimony about conversations that you had with

4 Ms. Peralta Haynes, with your wife, with others, but let

5 me just ask you very directly, at any time, did you

6 dissuade anyone from any law enforcement investigation?

7 A. Never.

8 Q. At any time, did you ever ask anyone to

9 destroy any evidence?

10 A. Never.

11 Q. Thank you. We've also heard testimony about

12 your weapons that were turned over to law enforcement.

13 Let me ask you first, how did you store those weapons?

14 A. The two semiautomatics, the SIG Sauer and the

15 Beretta, they're slides. The slide chambers were

16 completely set back. They were neutralized by a lot of

17 tape. There was never ammunition in the weapons

18 themselves at all. It -- they were completely

19 immobilized from being of any use, and they were stored

20 in a cabinet in a storage room which would take both a

21 padlock and a bolt lock, two keys, in order to gain

22 entry into that.

23 On the Smith, it was an open cylinder, no

24 ammunition, taped so that the cylinder would not be --

25 so that the cylinder could not be engaged, so that,

818
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 again, they would be rendered neutralized.

2 Q. Thank you. At any time after your arrest in

3 January, at any time, did you ever have any control over

4 those weapons?

5 A. Never.

6 MR. KEITH: Objection, calls for -- well,

7 objection, vague.

8 COMMISSIONER HUR: Do you understand the question,

9 Sheriff?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes, I -- I believe I do.

11 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

12 THE WITNESS: I had no control and no contact at

13 all with those weapons.

14 MR. WAGGONER: Q. Thank you. I'm going to move on

15 now to at your -- I believe at your inaugural, you

16 testified earlier that you used the phrase at some point

17 during a media interview or conference -- you used the

18 phrase "private, family matter" in reference to what was

19 happening to you at that time. What -- what are your

20 feelings about that now?

21 MR. KEITH: Objection, relevance.

22 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

23 THE WITNESS: Naturally, I completely regret that I

24 said that. And I made a mistake, I made a terrible

25 mistake in saying that. It wasn't in the context of

819
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 what I had meant. And when -- the statement that was

2 given to me, I should have rejected the statement.

3 MR. WAGGONER: Q. Thank you, Sheriff. I'm going

4 to move on. Only a few more questions.

5 Sheriff, while -- between the time that you were

6 inaugurated, for those couple of months that you were

7 acting sheriff, what did you accomplish, accomplish as

8 sheriff?

9 MR. KEITH: Objection, relevance and beyond the

10 scope.

11 COMMISSIONER HUR: "What did you accomplish as

12 sheriff?" I'll hear argument.

13 MR. WAGGONER: Part of the mayor's allegations is

14 that the Sheriff is -- can't possibly be sheriff because

15 he's not capable of performing the duties of the office.

16 However, I think given what the Sheriff was able to

17 accomplish while sheriff, that's certainly relevant to

18 that argument and to those allegations.

19 COMMISSIONER HUR: Mr. Keith?

20 MR. KEITH: The argument regarding performance as

21 sheriff does not go to qualifications, does not go to

22 whether he can perform the basic duties or make any

23 certain accomplishments.

24 The argument regarding the duties of sheriff goes

25 to the relationship to the duties of sheriff. There's

820
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 not -- the basis for our charges is that -- is not that

2 he's ineffective or that the sky will fall if he is

3 reinstituted. The basis for the charges is that he fell

4 below the standard of conduct and that this conduct was

5 also in relation to the duties of office.

6 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. So if I sustain this

7 objection, you're -- you're going to maintain the

8 position that whether or not he can perform the

9 duties -- after -- his effectiveness on the job going

10 forward is not relevant to this investigation.

11 MR. KEITH: You know --

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: Because that's what it sounded

13 like you just said.

14 MR. KEITH: No. Commissioners, I don't want to

15 engage in line-drawing at this point on this issue. I

16 think I know what our position is going to be, but I

17 want to -- I will give them an opportunity to put in the

18 evidence that they feel they need to make it. So I'll

19 withdraw it.

20 COMMISSIONER HUR: So you're withdrawing your

21 objection?

22 MR. KEITH: Yes.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Do you have the question

24 in mind, sir?

25 THE WITNESS: Again, please.

821
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 MR. WAGGONER: Q. At the time that you served the

2 City and County of San Francisco as sheriff this year,

3 what did you accomplish?

4 A. A great deal. It's, I think, a long answer,

5 but I'll do my best to synthesize. I was inheriting a

6 department that had been well led by my predecessor,

7 Sheriff Mike Hennessey, who'd been the longest-serving

8 elected in the history of the City and County of San

9 Francisco. Thirty-two years, there hadn't been, as I

10 said earlier, an open election for sheriff, so there was

11 a great period of transition.

12 Part of that transition was my making staff changes

13 and promotions of both deputy sheriffs and civilian

14 staff; making constant rounds to all our properties,

15 both within San Francisco and in San Mateo County; being

16 able to change policies so that I would have a more

17 inclusive administration of lower ranks that hadn't been

18 previously included in budgetary decisions and

19 policy-making decisions; preparing the sheriff's

20 department for what was now becoming the first full year

21 of state prisoner realignment as propelled by Assembly

22 Bill 109; and had begun a number of projects that would

23 really elevate our ability of having in-custody and

24 post-custody rehabilitation programs building on the

25 success of the Mike Hennessey administration in ways

822
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 that have never been experienced before in San

2 Francisco.

3 For example, I had two very incisive, in-depth

4 meetings with Mimi Silbert of Delancey Street. We had

5 prepared for the beginnings of starting the first-ever

6 reentry pod in the San Francisco County Jail, where

7 there would be a lateral reentry program so that we

8 would speak effectively against the highest incidence of

9 recidivism that usually occurs within the first six

10 months of release from jail so that our relationship

11 with Delancey would be piloted in showing what a pod

12 would look like for people who would then be supervised

13 by Delancey Street administration while they're in

14 custody and continue to be post-custody. I was very

15 much looking forward to that pilot project taking off.

16 The second would be with SAGE, an organization

17 which I did authorize where there would be monies

18 allocated to SAGE in starting a case-worker program on

19 part time so that women who were then exiting the county

20 jail system would then be welcomed by a SAGE case worker

21 so that they would not necessarily go back into the

22 sex-worker/prostitute industry and/or, if they were

23 being exploited or harmed in any particular way, that

24 the sheriff's department would then involve itself in

25 assisting them so that they wouldn't return to that

823
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 lifestyle.

2 The third was I was in longstanding conversations

3 with Adult Probation Chief Wendy Still and the city and

4 the state about involving a dedicated pod, reentry pod,

5 and we were negotiating over that reentry pod for what

6 population of offender that that reentry pod would be

7 for and negotiating whether it would be women only or

8 men, and that was where I had left the discussion.

9 We were preparing the beginnings of a budget which

10 the previous-year budget, before I took office, was

11 approximately $171 million, but this was now the first

12 year where the city was beginning to see some light at

13 the end of the tunnel -- tunnel of previous five-year

14 budget deficits where I was going to advocate

15 vociferously for better realignment programs that would

16 be more effective in reentry.

17 I also sent several letters both to the police

18 chief and to the mayor and to the city controller about

19 the deputy sheriffs' elevating their role in the larger

20 construct of public safety. I believe that we could

21 have saved the City and County money by seeing the

22 divisi on transfer of what is known as the station

23 transfer unit that is now under the governance of the

24 police department to the sheriff's department because

25 the deputy sheriffs are paid approximately 23 percent

824
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 less than the SFPD officers and it's a -- it is a

2 routine action that even the San Francisco Police

3 Department experimented once that they know that they

4 could be alleviated from by freeing up police officers

5 so that the sheriff's department would pick that up as

6 well.

7 I also --

8 MR. KEITH: Commissioners, if I could -- I'm -- I'm

9 sorry to interrupt the witness, but I think we've got

10 into quite a narrative here, and I would rather proceed

11 by question and answer.

12 COMMISSIONER HUR: Please! Again, I'm sorry, but I

13 am directing the sheriffs that if they can tell who is

14 making noises, we have to remove you from the

15 proceedings. Thank you.

16 I agree that it is better by question and answer,

17 Mr. Waggoner, so -- the objection is late, though, so

18 I'm going to overrule it. But I -- for our benefit, it

19 would be helpful if we could proceed a little more by

20 question and answer on this.

21 MR. WAGGONER: Thank you, Commissioner.

22 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, but as I prefaced, I will

23 do my best to synthesize, but it's a long --

24 I believe I was saying about presenting the idea to

25 the mayor, to the police department, to the controller

825
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 in ways of saving money, but also in elevating, I think,

2 the role of deputy sheriffs beyond the duties that they

3 routinely fulfilled in their credential as being peace

4 officers and in the city's lament of having a deficit of

5 SFPD officers.

6 I think that there was an opportunity to help

7 complement and augment where staffing was short. That

8 could be from the routine duties of monitoring --

9 monitoring inmates at San Francisco General, for

10 example, or at the courts, where the police would be

11 alleviated from having to do that, where the sheriffs

12 certainly could, because overtime is something that the

13 city's quite challenged by. And again, the math would

14 be well saved by the sheriff's department.

15 And I went as far to talk about what is unpopular.

16 And what is unpopular is about ways that we can help

17 with community policing where I think it is poorly

18 practiced in San Francisco, something that as a

19 supervisor, I spoke about quite vociferously, that I

20 think that our department could have helped, assisted

21 with, and so on.

22 There's quite a bit more that occurred in those

23 first two and a half months.

24 MR. WAGGONER: Q. Thank you, Sheriff. You

25 mentioned that you sent letters to the police chief and

826
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 others. You mentioned that you had conversations will

2 Probation Chief Wendy Still. Were you able to work

3 effectively with those individuals?

4 MR. KEITH: Objection, calls for speculation.

5 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

6 THE WITNESS: Yes, and I would say in terms of the

7 messages they sent me that that only supported and

8 affirmed, I think, the fluid relationship that we had

9 even while I was engaged in a -- in the process at the

10 Hall of Justice.

11 MR. WAGGONER: Q. Thank you. Sheriff Mirkarimi,

12 do you think you can continue to be sheriff of the City

13 and County of San Francisco?

14 MR. KEITH: Objection, relevance.

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled based on your previous

16 representation of the argument you're going to make.

17 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do believe that I can, and I

18 believe I can quite effectively. I realize the uphill

19 battle that has now been laid in front of me, and I

20 believe that probably to the eyes of everybody, it would

21 seem almost next to impossible for somebody in my

22 position to try to rise to that standard.

23 But I campaigned and I always believed as a

24 supervisor and even before that, as a nine-year member

25 of the district attorney's office and as a graduate

827
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 class president of the San Francisco Police Academy,

2 that what makes San Francisco special is that our

3 forward-thinking approach, I think, to public safety and

4 criminal justice -- and I was very outspoken that in my

5 administration, part of that acknowledges the idea of

6 what a power of redemption may look like.

7 Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would

8 become an example of what that redemptive process could

9 look like. But I believe as sheriff, somebody who's

10 gone through this process that has been well and

11 high-profiled throughout the country and abroad, that

12 that certainly sets the challenges before me that

13 somebody who now has seen both sides of the aisle, I

14 think helps in a way that, if people would just open

15 their minds, can serve as an asset.

16 And what it means to speaking more, I think, to

17 some of the strengths and some of the weaknesses of the

18 criminal justice system, and the people that come

19 through the county jail system and the people that are

20 in charge of working the county jail system in the City

21 and County of San Francisco all have one goal in mind,

22 and that goal is that we hope that those people do not

23 return back to the county jail system that are

24 incarcerated.

25 And I think that if we are, I think, put to the

828
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 side of dehumanizing people that are inside that jail

2 system and that we are cognizant of the fact that our

3 objective is to do everything we can so that we not see

4 repeat offenders -- and I think I as the sheriff, who

5 has had a career in law enforcement, who has fought hard

6 in this city as a supervisor that took a district with

7 one of the highest homicide rates for 20 years and

8 brought it down with the cooperation of both city and

9 law enforcement and community, that helps prepare me to
10 continue to be, I think, one of the best sheriffs I

11 possibly can be, as I was voted to be for the people of

12 San Francisco.

13 MR. WAGGONER: Thank you, Sheriff. Thank you,

14 Commissioners. We have nothing further.

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll give some limited recross,

16 but within the scope of redirect, and not more time than

17 he took.

18 ---o0o---

19 RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. KEITH:

20 MR. KEITH: Q. Sheriff, when you were describing

21 one of the ways that you think you can be a good

22 sheriff, you mentioned that you've gone through this

23 process. Do you recall that?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Okay. And when you talk about having gone

829
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 through this process, are you referring to the crim- --

2 UNKNOWN MAN: Speak into the mic, please.

3 MR. KEITH: Q. When you talk about having gone

4 through this process, are you referring to the criminal

5 justice process?

6 A. And the whole experience, yes.

7 Q. Okay. Well, that criminal justice process

8 involved initially a charge. Correct? On

9 January 13th?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Okay. And then you were sentenced. You were

12 convicted and sentenced in March of this year?

13 MR. WAGGONER: Objection. We've been over this.

14 Asked and answered.

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: We have. Sustained.

16 MR. KEITH: Okay.

17 Q. Sheriff, you mentioned having gone through

18 this process. The criminal justice process with regard

19 to what you did on December 31st is not over. Are you

20 done with the criminal justice process with regard to

21 what happened on December 31st?

22 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

24 THE WITNESS: As -- are you referring to probation?

25 MR. KEITH: Q. You're still on probation.

830
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes.

2 Q. So you're not done with probation?

3 A. No.

4 Q. And you're still in your mandatory 52 weeks of

5 domestic violence counseling?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And the process of redemption does not happen

8 overnight, does it?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Okay. And you're aware that the official

11 misconduct provision of the charter does not contain a

12 lifetime ban on employment. It's a five-year ban. You

13 are aware of that, are you not?

14 A. I'm -- I'm sorry, I'm not.

15 Q. Okay. Sheriff, you mentioned in your -- the

16 list of some of the things that you had been doing in

17 the two months that you were sheriff being involved in

18 reentry and preparing for realignment. Do you recall

19 that?

20 A. Yes, I do.

21 Q. Okay. And that is an area where you need to

22 collaborate with other criminal justice agencies?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You have to collaborate with the district

25 attorney?

831
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes.

2 Q. The public defender?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. You have to collaborate with the chief of

5 adult probation?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. You have to collaborate with the courts?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you're negotiating important issues with

10 these other law enforcement agencies.

11 A. And contracts potentially, yes.

12 Q. Right. Which agency will take certain

13 responsibilities?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Which agency is best positioned to undertake

16 certain responsibilities?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. These are all things that you are --

19 that reentry and realignment require you to work with

20 your peer agencies as an equal?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. You are subject to the jurisdiction of the

23 San Francisco Adult Probation Department?

24 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, asked and answered.

25 COMMISSIONER HUR: Sustained.

832
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 MR. KEITH: Q. Now, Sheriff, when -- during one of

2 your answers, you mentioned that there was "an uphill

3 battle laid in front of me." Those were -- those were

4 your words, this uphill battle that you had that --

5 "laid in front of me."

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Okay. Sheriff, who put that battle in front

8 of you? Who was responsible for that?

9 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, calls for speculation.

10 COMMISSIONER HUR: Overruled.

11 THE WITNESS: Me.

12 MR. KEITH: Nothing further.

13 COMMISSIONER HUR: Thank you.

14 I believe the commissioners may have questions for

15 the sheriff, so let me open it up to my fellow

16 commissioners, for anyone who may have questions for the

17 sheriff.

18 Commissioner Liu.

19 COMMISSIONER LIU: Thank you.

20 THE WITNESS: Fine.

21 COMMISSIONER HUR: Can you see each other?

22 COMMISSIONER LIU: Yes.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay.

24 COMMISSIONER LIU: Good afternoon, Sheriff.

25 THE WITNESS: Good afternoon.

833
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER LIU: Mr. Keith had read into the

2 record a statement you made in open court, in criminal

3 court, in the criminal proceeding, where you apologized

4 to Ms. Madison and her family. What exactly were you

5 apologizing for?

6 THE WITNESS: There was nothing specific laid out

7 in the apology, just for the whole tone and tenor of

8 everything that occurred.

9 COMMISSIONER LIU: Tone and tenor of what?

10 THE WITNESS: The whole experience. That's all.

11 COMMISSIONER LIU: But what experience were you

12 apologizing for?

13 THE WITNESS: It was just a general apology.

14 COMMISSIONER LIU: Were you apologizing for any

15 actions that you had taken?

16 THE WITNESS: I had not taken any actions against

17 Ms. Madison or Mertens.

18 COMMISSIONER LIU: Were you apologizing for any

19 actions taken by your representatives?

20 THE WITNESS: No.

21 COMMISSIONER LIU: I guess I'm just unclear why you

22 were -- why you made a public apology to her and her

23 family.

24 THE WITNESS: Well, it was suggested that I do and

25 I agreed with it.

834
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER LIU: And do you know what the basis

2 was for the suggestion that you apologize?

3 THE WITNESS: No, that was provided by the District

4 Attorney, and I agreed to it.

5 COMMISSIONER LIU: I see. Okay. And the other --

6 only other question I had was how -- how did you come to

7 grab your wife's arm on December 31st? Because I

8 don't -- I definitely don't want to belabor the point,

9 but I don't think we've heard from you exactly the

10 context of what happened.

11 THE WITNESS: When my wife and I were returning,

12 because I had turned the car around from us going to

13 lunch, at about 11:45, 11:50 a.m., because we had been

14 quarreling, I had -- we were both in a very heated

15 discussion.

16 COMMISSIONER LIU: While you were driving?

17 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes. I mean, no physical or

18 anything, just sort of heated. I was driving; my wife's

19 in the passenger seat; my son is in the back seat. It's

20 a minivan, and so in his back child-booster seat.

21 And parked the car. We got home, parked the car.

22 We were quarreling. And both me and my wife were upset.

23 My son was crying. And I was stupidly, wrongly thinking

24 that I can, you know, respond to this in a way that

25 might calm things down. And I reached out to my wife

835
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 while I was in my -- in the driver's seat while she was

2 unharnessing our son. She was half in and half out of

3 the minivan, unharnessing him. He was upset; she was

4 upset. And I put my hand underneath her right arm, and

5 that's how it got bruised.

6 COMMISSIONER LIU: Okay. I see. And yesterday,

7 last night, you had testified that you had violated your

8 wife's personal liberty. Other than the act of grabbing

9 her arm, was there any other way in which you violated

10 her personal liberty?

11 THE WITNESS: What I believe that they're referring

12 to is to what I had pled to, is the false imprisonment,

13 236, refers to me turning the van around against her

14 wishes when we were on our way to lunch.

15 I was concerned about us quarreling out in public,

16 in a place that didn't take reservations, and just

17 thought that we would take a detour back and either have

18 lunch somewhere else or at home because it -- we need

19 to -- our son needed to eat. And so we went home and he

20 had lunch at home.

21 COMMISSIONER LIU: Okay. Thank you.

22 THE WITNESS: Yes.

23 COMMISSIONER HUR: Any other questions from the

24 commissioners? Commissioner Renne.

25 COMMISSIONER RENNE: Good morning, Sheriff. You've

836
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 seen the tape that's Exhibit 4, have you not?

2 THE WITNESS: The tape made of -- with my wife and

3 the neighbor?

4 COMMISSIONER RENNE: Of your wife.

5 THE WITNESS: Yes.

6 COMMISSIONER RENNE: And is there anything

7 inaccurate that your wife described in describing the

8 events of December 31st, that you say was inaccurate?

9 THE WITNESS: Maybe. There's some vague statements

10 that were made on that tape, and I wouldn't know if I

11 would say they were inaccurate, but definitely vague.

12 One statement in particular is that -- I'm trying

13 to recall, because it's been a long -- it's been a while

14 since I've seen the tape -- that she refers to or it's

15 been said that I said I was a powerful man. I never

16 said that. Ever did I say that.

17 In fact, referring back to the questioning earlier,

18 both by counsel and -- both counsel, I was referring to

19 the powers of the state as it re- -- as it pertained to

20 custody questions because of the nature of our argument

21 about potential custody and taking our son away for a

22 long period of time.

23 COMMISSIONER RENNE: But insofar as her making

24 reference to your having used the term "powerful" or

25 having something being powerful, that was in fact part

837
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 of the conversation?

2 THE WITNESS: Yes, it was. The comment was

3 never -- and it's just not my style. I -- but I never

4 said "I'm a powerful man." Never did I say that.

5 COMMISSIONER RENNE: Now, in -- in that tape, your

6 wife also makes some statements about the sort of

7 condition of your marital relationship; that is, that

8 it's troubled or that there'd been talk of divorce and

9 things of that nature. Were those inaccurate

10 statements?

11 THE WITNESS: No.

12 COMMISSIONER RENNE: Now, have you read the

13 declaration of Ivory Madison?

14 THE WITNESS: Yes, but since it has been changed,

15 I -- I have to keep up in seeing what the final product

16 is, yes.

17 COMMISSIONER RENNE: And did you note that there

18 were references to statements that your wife made to

19 Ms. Madison about the events of December 31st?

20 THE WITNESS: Yes.

21 COMMISSIONER RENNE: And were any of the statements

22 that were attributed to your wife by Ms. Madison -- were

23 they inaccurate descriptions of what had happened on

24 December 31st?

25 THE WITNESS: I believe that there was some

838
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 embellishing.

2 COMMISSIONER RENNE: Such as?

3 THE WITNESS: Well, the "powerful" statement,

4 number one. The -- as it relates to what Ms. Madison

5 reported, there was no argument inside the house. There

6 was no where my wife left the house, talking about the

7 police. That never occurred at all.

8 COMMISSIONER RENNE: So that it's your testim ony

9 that although you continued to argue and have heated

10 discussion when you returned, when you turned around and

11 returned back home, once you got out of the automobile,

12 there were no longer any heated discussions?

13 THE WITNESS: That's correct. That's absolutely

14 correct.

15 COMMISSIONER RENNE: No further questions.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: Commissioner Hayon.

17 COMMISSIONER HAYON: In the -- good morning,

18 Sheriff.

19 THE WITNESS: Good morning.

20 COMMISSIONER HAYON: In the text messages that we

21 saw or looked at earlier this morning, there was

22 characterization of the domestic violence advocates,

23 with, I guess, Beverly Upton in particular --

24 THE WITNESS: Right.

25 COMMISSIONER HAYON: -- where the protests that

839
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 took place following news of your -- you know, of the

2 incident on December 31st where you characterized

3 those efforts as a political witch hunt; is that

4 correct?

5 THE WITNESS: It was in response to the message I

6 received previously from Linnette Peralta Haynes, and I

7 had repeated the term that was in her previous message,

8 yes.

9 COMMISSIONER HAYON: Well, I guess my question

10 would be, then, in terms of domestic violence advocates

11 and the kind of protests that certainly have been

12 prevalent in the city of San Francisco and with our very

13 progressive record on how we deal with domestic violence

14 in the city, do you consider all of those vehement

15 protests or anger about domestic violence political

16 witch hunts in every case?

17 THE WITNESS: No, but in this particular case, what

18 I was informed of is that people who were part of that

19 protest were also well-connected to my opponent's

20 campaign for sheriff. And at the time, with limited

21 information, that is what people were speculating.

22 COMMISSIONER HAYON: And if others were

23 speculating, so did you agree with this speculation?

24 Was that your conclusion as well? I mean, does the fact

25 that they may have been connected to political opponents

840
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 in the race automatically make it a political witch

2 hunt?

3 THE WITNESS: Not at all, no. But at that

4 particular time, we're taking in information and

5 processing it as we are going along.

6 COMMISSIONER HAYON: Okay. Thank you.

7 COMMISSIONER HUR: Commissioner Studley?

8 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: You mentioned that at your

9 meeting with the Bay Guardian, I believe it was, that

10 Mr. Jeff Gillenkirk was one of the people at the

11 meeting; is that correct?

12 THE WITNESS: Yes.

13 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: What was Mr. Gillenkirk's

14 role? And I understand you invited him. He was there

15 as --

16 THE WITNESS: Yes.

17 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: -- part of your group at

18 that meeting?

19 What role did he play in that -- for what reason

20 did you include him in that meeting?

21 THE WITNESS: He had called me and reached out and

22 noticed, I think, that we did not have really any media

23 strategy at all, and offered any kind of advice. And we

24 didn't really know each other at all, but I invited him

25 if he wanted to come join us. He said hardly anything

841
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 at that meeting.

2 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: What is his professional

3 background? If you know.

4 THE WITNESS: Public relations, I believe, or media

5 relations.

6 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: And after that meeting, did

7 he work with you on media relations and public relations

8 strategy?

9 THE WITNESS: Very little. Very little. We have

10 no money to pay, so it's volunteer call here and there.

11 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: Did you have a media

12 strategy or public relations plan -- and I say that

13 lower case, informal plan -- about what you would do as

14 a media matter?

15 THE WITNESS: They had suggestions, but we really

16 have no plan per se.

17 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: And --

18 THE WITNESS: It's pretty ad hoc.

19 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: And what were those

20 suggestions?

21 THE WITNESS: Write a -- write letters to the

22 editor, write an opinion piece. When I was -- I was

23 constantly being asked to do media interviews and

24 frankly quite insecure about doing so for a great many

25 weeks, and just simply, you know, any pointers on doing

842
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 one. I was not a stranger to the media, but in this

2 particular case I had -- it had been some while since I

3 engaged in any media interviews.

4 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: I have one other question.

5 This relates to one of the text messages. On

6 January 4th at 5:51 p.m., we have a text message from

7 Ms. Lopez saying, "You have to call hennessey and stop

8 this before something happen. Ivory is giving the

9 investigators everything. Use your power."

10 Do you know what Ms. Lopez was referring to when

11 she said "use your power"?

12 THE WITNESS: I believe my wife was trying to make

13 sense out of what was crashing all before and she

14 thought that I might be able to do something about it.

15 And I think it just underscores my wife not familiar

16 with the process, and I was clear with her that I just

17 can't.

18 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: The phrase "use your power,"

19 I'm wondering where -- where you think that phrase came

20 from, why she used that particular phrase, "use your

21 power."

22 THE WITNESS: That was just my wife using her

23 own -- that's her vocabulary.

24 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: Had you used that phrase?

25 Have you referred to your power previously?

843
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 THE WITNESS: No, I did not.

2 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: Thank you.

3 COMMISSIONER HUR: Mr. Sheriff, good morning. I

4 want to follow up on something that Commissioner Renne

5 asked you.

6 Why is it that once you and your wife got out of

7 the car on December 31st -- why did you -- why did the

8 argument suddenly stop?

9 THE WITNESS: Frankly, because of our child. I

10 think that I stayed in the car to just kind of reflect

11 on what happened. My wife collected our -- our son and

12 went into the house. And I was still in the driver's

13 seat and took my seat belt off and collected some of the

14 things, like our child's bag and some of the other

15 belongings inside the car, and locked up the car and

16 went into the house. It was lunchtime.

17 And if you knew my wife, she's extremely regimented

18 about eating at certain times, and so I didn't want to

19 add to the tension. So that was something that we

20 honor. And it was lunchtime, and my son was being given

21 lunch.

22 COMMISSIONER HUR: Any other questions for the

23 sheriff? Commissioner Hayon.

24 COMMISSIONER HAYON: One thing that really I

25 haven't heard anything about is in terms of the timeline

844
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 when your wife called you and spoke to you and

2 acknowledged and explained to you that she had visited

3 the neighbor and that there had been a videotape and

4 that she had recounted the events of December 31st to

5 Ms. Madison.

6 Given your reaction to, you know, December 31st

7 and your anger and volatility, from what it sounds like,

8 I haven't heard anything at all about how you reacted

9 upon hearing that news that your wife had not only gone

10 to the neighbor, but had allowed a videotape of these

11 events. Can you talk about that a little bit?

12 THE WITNESS: Well, my wife did not go into detail

13 about the videotape when I was first informed, and I did

14 not see the videotape until sometime later. So I was,

15 just as I said earlier, processing what was occurring.

16 Frankly, I was kind of in a state of shock when she was

17 informing me about what was going on.

18 And when she had called me and when we had met on

19 the Grove side about a block away from City Hall, I was

20 simply just trying to absorb what she was telling me,

21 trying to make sense out of this. It was surreal.

22 And -- and little attention was being discussed about a

23 videotape at that time.

24 What was on my wife's mind -- because I felt like I

25 needed to protect my wife because she was the one who

845
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 was scared and panicked as well as I was becoming that

2 way. But I wasn't fully being able to, you know, take

3 time to comprehend everything that was going on. I was

4 just listening.

5 COMMISSIONER HAYON: Why do you think your wife was

6 so scared and panicked?

7 THE WITNESS: I think scared because she felt

8 betrayed by the neighbor. And that was the nature of

9 what she was rushing to and telling me about, what this

10 neighbor was doing. And this is the first I'm learning

11 of all this, so I'm trying to understand it myself

12 because it just sounds so -- just sounds so amazing, so

13 crazy.

14 COMMISSIONER HAYON: Is it possible that she was

15 scared and panicked in anticipation of what your

16 reaction might have been?

17 THE WITNESS: No, I -- I -- I don't believe that

18 because she was very clear about what she was scared

19 about, and that was what the neighbor -- and whatever

20 was occurring between she and the neighbor, because my

21 reaction, if you noticed, was frankly very measured as

22 it related to even when she asked me to see if there was

23 something I can do about it later that day.

24 My reaction was not anything more than just really

25 listening, trying to process the details that were being

846
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 provided to me, and trying to then respond with what I

2 thought were the responsible decisions that I wasn't

3 going to interfere with an investigation and not

4 interfere with the process that apparently had been

5 unleashed.

6 And at the same time, my wife was looking to me for

7 some response because she felt, obviously, concerned and

8 troubled. And so all of this confluence at the exact

9 same time was where I was trying to make sense of how I

10 can maintain the professional standards and integrity of

11 what I'm hearing third party now that is occurring, and

12 at the same time addressing, I think, the concerns of my

13 wife.

14 COMMISSIONER HAYON: I have one more question.

15 COMMISSIONER HUR: Please.

16 COMMISSIONER HAYON: On another subject, just to

17 follow up on Commissioner Studley's questions about your

18 media strategy or lack thereof, in crisis management, a

19 basic is to acknowledge, apologize, and assure the

20 public that what has transpired in terms of a crisis

21 will never happen again. And generally speaking, I

22 think that in most critical media situations where this

23 has been followed, it tends to defuse the situation and

24 often end the situation rather quickly so that there is

25 not a long, drawn-out media frenzy such as we've

847
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 experienced in San Francisco over this case.

2 I'm just wondering whether or not anyone that you

3 consulted, whether it be your campaign manager or any

4 media strategists with whom you spoke, advised you to do

5 something like that immediately, get it out of the way

6 so that you could move on and not have to -- well, get

7 to this point as we are here today.

8 THE WITNESS: The answer is at a high price, there

9 were a couple of media strategists that we talked to

10 that suggested that we do something like this. And

11 again, it was very ad hoc at best. There was no media

12 strategy and no media plan.

13 In hindsight, I sure wish we did, in many ways, and

14 I really admit, you know, that there -- we failed in

15 being able to, I think, explain and present in the way

16 that I think you just suggested. It was an overwhelming

17 and continued to be an overwhelming event to be branded

18 in the way that I was branded by the paper of record and

19 others, and it b ecame where in essence I just kind of

20 shut down. And I did.

21 Personally speaking, I was sad. I was humiliated

22 and ashamed. I was losing my -- my family, where I

23 still have not been able to see my wife since

24 January 13th, separation of my son. My past had been

25 completely tarnished and sullied and my future now

848
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 completely in question; my family, not sure when I'd be

2 able to get back together and repair with my wife and

3 son.

4 All these things coming together, in hindsight, I

5 absolutely wish that we were more on top of it in

6 demonstrating the wherewithal to do something like, say,

7 when Mayor Newsom did when his scandal erupted and when

8 he had the resources to be able to bring together the

9 kind of response that he did or when others do so.

10 COMMISSIONER HAYON: Well, let me just add, I would

11 have to say that, you know, in order to issue an apology

12 and be forthcoming about the events, there need not be

13 any cost involved whatsoever. It's just a common-sense

14 approach to being honest and forthcoming when you are in

15 a crisis situation, and you don't have to have a

16 high-priced PR person in order to do that. That as an

17 aside, but --

18 THE WITNESS: Except in this regard, though, that

19 in -- I think there's been a couple --

20 COMMISSIONER HUR: There's no question.

21 Do you want his response?

22 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

23 COMMISSIONER HAYON: No, that's fine.

24 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

25 COMMISSIONER HAYON: Thank you.

849
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 COMMISSIONER HUR: Any other questions?

2 Thank you, Mr. Sheriff.

3 THE WITNESS: All right. Thank you.

4 MR. KEITH: Commissioners, there was a new matter

5 raised that I would like to follow up on. I don't want

6 to go on anything that's already been covered, but there

7 was one new matter raised by Commissioner Liu regarding

8 the basis for the false-imprisonment plea. I'd like to

9 do a brief follow-up on that issue.

10 COMMISSIONER HUR: I'll hear argument.

11 MR. WAGGONER: We would object to that.

12 Commissioners, the mayor has already been -- went over

13 twice the time estimate that he gave us last night. I

14 don't think there's anything left at this point. So we

15 would object to any further time being spent on that.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: I open this up to my fellow

17 commissioners. It's a process issue that I think may

18 come up again. I am inclined in light of the

19 opportunity that counsel had to examine not to allow

20 further examination by counsel after the questions of

21 the commissioners, but I -- I'm open to suggestions.

22 COMMISSIONER RENNE: What is the new matter that

23 you say you hadn't already covered?

24 MR. KEITH: That the sheriff mentioned what he

25 considered to be the factual basis for his

850
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 false-imprisonment plea, and I wanted to ask him a

2 follow-up question about that. That is not an issue

3 that we had gone into with either counsel, and that he

4 had -- that he had raised in response to a question from

5 Commissioner Liu.

6 COMMISSIONER HUR: Commissioner Studley?

7 COMMISSIONER STUDLEY: Although I would defer to

8 the active litigators on the panel on this, I guess I do

9 have a feeling that when commissioner questions -- if

10 commissioner questions open a new area, that either

11 counsel might be allowed to clarify. I don't think this

12 is a question of total time; I think it's a question of

13 whether we have done something to -- to raise new

14 territory. But I would.

15 COMMISSIONER RENNE: I would agree with

16 Commissioner Studley.

17 COMMISSIONER HUR: Okay. Why don't we allow some

18 questioning, very limited.

19 ---o0o---

20 FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. KEITH:

21 MR. KEITH: Q. Commissioner -- I'm sorry.

22 Sheriff, you mentioned in response to a question

23 from Commissioner Liu that the false imprisonment that

24 you committed against your wife consisted of turning the

25 van around. Do you recall that remark?

851
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 A. Yes, but the term was "liberty," in

2 restricting liberty --

3 Q. Okay.

4 A. -- and that's what I was thinking that she was

5 referring to.

6 Q. Okay. But in any case, your answer was that

7 that was, in your mind, the factual basis for your plea

8 to false imprisonment?

9 A. Well, I was answering a question about was

10 there another time of restricting the liberty, and

11 that's what I -- on December 31st.

12 Q. Okay. Sheriff, did the district attorney ever

13 state to you, "We are accepting your plea of false

14 imprisonment because you turned the van around"?

15 MR. WAGGONER: Objection, relevance.

16 COMMISSIONER HUR: Short rope. I'll allow it.

17 THE WITNESS: I don't.

18 MR. KEITH: Okay. Nothing -- nothing further.

19 Thank you.

20 COMMISSIONER HUR: Mr. Waggoner? Anything?

21 MR. WAGGONER: No. Thank you, Commissioners.

22 COMMISSIONER HUR: Thank you. Thank you, Sheriff.

23 I think at this point we should take the lunch

24 break. I would like to take a 45-minute break, if

25 that's acceptable to the parties.

852
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 MR. KEITH: Yes.

2 MR. WAGGONER: Yes, that's fine.

3 COMMISSIONER HUR: I understand that we need to

4 clear this room entirely during that break. I also

5 would expect that we get back here at 1:00 o'clock and

6 have testimony from the mayor at that point. Okay? So

7 let's take a lunch break.

8 (Lunch recess taken at 12:15 p.m.)

9 ---o0o---

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853
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

2

3 I hereby certify that the foregoing

4 proceedings in the within-entitled cause took place at

5 the time and place herein stated and were reported by

6 me, MARLENE PUAOI, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and

7 disinterested person, and were thereafter transcribed

8 into typewriting;

9

10 And I further certify that I am not of counsel

11 or attorney for either or any of the parties nor in any

12 way interested in the outcome of the cause named in said

13 caption.

14

15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my hand

16 and affixed my signature this 13th day of July 2012.

17

18

19 MARLENE PUAOI, CSR, RPR
California CSR No. 7370
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854
Ethics Commission Meeting - Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi

 

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